Personally I don't think hybrids are actually bad and I don't think guys like Rainer are the problem. The only thing I don't like about what Rainer says is it could be sometimes interpreted as purists should keep silent. I don't think that's what he really intends though.

When I say purists should speak out I don't mean they should speak out about the evils of hybrids because they're not necessarily evil. I just mean they should speak out about the potential risks of hybrids. The risk is that distinct forms(that can no longer be collected legally) will be lost from the hobby, that's all.

Well you almost got it. I think. I am not against discussing purity, loacle specific etc. So no, I don't think it should be kept silent. But the impending idea that it will preserve forms when they can no longer be "legally" collected is what i worry about. But for a different reason..

Like I said many times i am more of a locality specif freak than most of you. I have done that for many decades.

What i am saying is that different divions should be respected. If you like hots, then you like hots. if you like genric, then great. If you like locality info with you snakes then that is great.

Personally i think keeping hots does more damage to the hobby with potential LEGAL risks for all of us...If you have neighbors when they hear you keep snakes. What is their first question.. Are they poisoness(venemous)?

I think that preserving a line or making new recessive double- triple-quad homozygots, or creating new mixed hybrids, breeding for purity by not using selective breeding (LOL) etc. Can be taken to extremes. To each his own. But to say that preservation of a species from broad locales or generic locales will help the hobby is ridiculous. To fight about it and say we have to keep them because we will no longer be able to get them legally is also ridiclous. Because when it gets to that point ALL snakes will be illegal irregardless. Otherise if someone wants a triple glowing hybrid that shoots lightning out of its ass or a a pair of wild collected anulatta that were found no more than 25 yards apart. They will seek it out and find it by doing some reasearch AND because that is what they want to keep in a box.



Explain to me this. What does 'helping the hobby" mean to all of you? Preserving our rights by making sure we don't get bad press? Making sure politicians won't keep adding new regulations?
Having ridiculous collectiong laws enacted by blanketing all species within a state?

tell me where all this arguing about what we keep and will actually solve anything or help herpetoculture as a whole?

If you want to preserve a spp , then go out and collect it yourself and breed it(Simple isn't it!). Maybe it will last a couple generations before someone else gets a hold of it and disolves it. But what are we doing in the long run to eefect this hobby and preserve it?

What you are really are accomplishing is to force your ideology onto others by saying IF one breeds hybrids, then it will pollute the hobby. Which on the surface sounds real self-righteous and all. But holds no water in the real world and the brow beating these forums take on this issue has caused more division than anything.


i would rather discuss the efforts of furthering herpetoculture rather than always getting sucked into the old "hybrids are bad" discussion. I would rather we move forward and discuss all sorts of herpetoculture endevours and discuss that. With respect to all. I think there is a lot more we could talk about and learn. But as soon as this subject come up. Eyes are closed and hears are shut. How about looking at hybrids, crosses and learning from them so that you CAN tell the difference? We are basically kicking against the gourd.
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