Posted by:
fr
at Fri Sep 2 11:35:15 2011 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by fr ]
Hi Will,
There is one major point, and that is, the deed is done, and has been done for a very long time.
Its not about who did what, or even why. Its about, once the ability to breed these snakes got to a certain level, then somebody will do it. And will do it for a zillion reasons. So the actual reasons are no longer a concern. Its done and will be done.
The reality here is, you too choose to believe Rainers hearsay over some others hearsay without proof. Again the proof would be the animals. Did Rainer show proof of what he told you, or did he offer his opinion(even if its a good one)
Thats the point I am attempting to make. Most of what everyone here is considering is HEARSAY, that is, what others said. They are not using the animals as evidence. That is except for Thomas. He stated that he produce three generations of those animals and no ratsnake characters has surfaced. Which is only soft evidence. hard evidence would be someone posting pics, you know WS fla kings that HAD ratsnake characteristics. Or such things as questionable scalation.
On a side note, the animals in guestion sounded like mongrels even without ratsnake influence. I mean, how do you have a snake full of goofy non natural morphs and mexican black king, and call it pure or normal???? Normal what? a normal mongrel!
On a side note, its odd to me that you can make those barriers. You know, have a snake thats a mixture of many non phenotypic characters, that was bred to other snakes not from its unique genepool and call it anything but a mut or mongrel.
So what happens when Thomas breeds that line of mongrels and then someone later adds something other then whats already in it, to it. hahahahahaha, its a mongrel mongrel or a mut mongrel. Do you see my point?
My question here is naive, I do not know all the hearsay, nor do I care. I want to see evidence. Which is what I would want in any conversation like this.
Hmmmmm its hard to make this point. Those like Doug keep saying, someday it these hidden gene will pop up and ruin it for those who bought those animals. Yes, thats true, but don't you think after many generations it would be popping up now?
As one who has produced crosses Not hybrids. You cannot mask all the genes.
Take ruthveni, there were crossed to thayeri and alterna. While some individuals look or appear pure thayer or alterna, there are individuals in every clutch, that do not. And those crosses have been around for a very long time.
Even the individuals that "appear" like either thayeri or alterna, have many small characters that are questionable. As in, an experienced eye can tell what they are.
The other point Thomas made was, after many generations there is no indication of Ratsnake, then it does not matter any more.
As a field herper, wild snakes hybridize all the time, but get washed out by sheer number. Yet, they are still pure.
Try researching rattlesnake crosses. There is wild caught individuals of every species, crossing with everyother species. Its widespread.
Also if you look, there are many many natural occurring colubrid hybrids. So what do you think happens to them in nature? Do they have to go sit in the corner?????? Thanks
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RE: about the mongrel thread below - fr, Fri Sep 2 11:35:15 2011