>>Hi John, wonderful snakes,

>>

>> I would like to discuss the term leonis. The original discription is of a snake with basically an alterna type pattern, that is, no split blotches or markings. Higher band count, etc.

>>

>> With Thayeri, the large markings(bands or blotches, normally do not cross the entire body. That is, they are more of a blotch or spot.

>>

>> In the original discription, the animal included alternates.

>>

>> As one of the first to observe many(numbers) of thayeri in the field, I would have called all the individuals you posted, normal thayeri and not leonis. Based on the actual discriptions.

>>

>> We, Bill Garska and I, had similar problems as you. The majority of wild "THAYERI" like the ones your calling leonis, key out to be Mex mex. In fact, more then half the THAYERI encountered in the field keyed out to be mex mex.

>>

>> Thanks





I re read your initial reply Frank.....



NOW I understand what you are saying....lol

The "thayeri" that have red that split the black key out to be mex mex......Since the original phenotype had pinned bands/saddles with no red splitting the black......



What do you think these "saddled" thayeri are?

Aren't they Leonis by today's standards?

They are from original lines of thayeri that you and others brought into the US and have never been bred to any other species or subspecies.....Are they the mere result of line breeding......I say, SURE!
-----
John Lassiter

Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

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