Posted by:
FR
at Sat Jun 2 10:57:27 2012 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by FR ]
Please try and understand this, All my posts to you are perfectly understandable to me. But you have to consider my experience level. WHich is different then yours. Any gap in education or experience level, makes it difficult to understand eachother. So the fact that I have bred kingsnakes since 1964 and have done field work since before that, makes it very difficult for me to understand you and you to understand me.
So when you read my posts, there are lots of things you do not understand, so you dismiss them or call them cryptic, or gibberish. They are not. They are very meaningful to me. As I am backed by experience. Both in the field and in captivity.
The simple fact that you call all this stuff theory, and I do not, I have seen groups, gatherings and bonding, and all such, commonly in nature, and in captivity. Its what WE STUDY in nature. Yet, you have not seen it and do not believe it exsist, so anything I say, about that, you cannot understand.
Which leads to your questions, you ask them, then dismiss the answers as wrong or it could be something else. Which is really a poor way to gain knowledge. First off, you are not suppose to BELIEVE anything, your suppose to be aware and or consider something. These things you are suppose to remember, then relate to eachother as you learn.
You needing to BELIEVE something will get you nowhere. Which is why your so very prejudiced, you have already believed things about these animals in nature that IS WRONG. So when you look at them, you only look to make them FIT what you already believe. That is being prejudiced. In truth, you have zero actual experience in the field. (that is gathered from your comments)
About your saying "it could be something else", what the heck does not mean, anything and everything could be something else. That type of thought will get you nowhere. This whole thing could be, an illusion.
I do understand why you say it, you do that because your all theory and feel you have to believe something TOLD to you. Gerard, This stuff was not told to me, I observed it. And its not about believing, its about repeated observations and repeated results. Real things, not words.
Let me ask you some questions and you answer them OK, I have watched a single pair of gila monsters for 33 years, Same individuals, in the same place. ARE they bonded? Consider, there are many many gilas in the same area, at times I would find 3 or 4 pairs within 50 Ft. So they could have been with any other individual they wanted. But they weren't, for 33 years. Would you call them bonded?
I also watch rattlesnakes and they do the same, on one hillside, there are three breeding sites, this hillside has over 100 individual snakes, yet the same exact individuals hang out at these three sites, EAch site, has its own individual snakes. And some individuals visit each site. Also there are many many spots between these sites where one or two individuals will stay. So would you can the ones that stay at the same site with the same other individuals and breed the same female, year after year, BONDED? If not, what would you call them?
I can go species after species with the same exact senario. But I am hoping you get the picture.
Those species include KINGSNAKES, which behavior no different then anyother of these species with this mode of behavior.
Then as I mentioned one million times, we repeated this in captivity with all manner of species, including kings, and if allowed, they will perform as they do in nature and pick(bond) and perfer certain individuals on others, and if allowed attend(which means to stay very near to) one or two other individuals and choose to allow copulation with that individual, over others. Is that some sort of bond?
Why I say, you attack is, you do not consider anything said, and use random questions that do not relate to the subject or the train of thought that will allow you to learn about the subject. You jump back and forth in some random line of questioning base on what you do not understand. I put to you, you really do not understand ethology/behavior in animals, so you line of questioning is about like a young person in first grade asking about some advanced subject. SImply put, yours and most here, have questions that are not in line with the subject. In line, is CONTEXT.
Your so very ignorant on behavior, that you really need to start simple and work your way up. So asking questions that you cannot understand the answer to, is of no value and will only confuse you. Which is why I requested that you study/research ethology. You need a base education before you attempt to figure any of this out.
Lastly, Its your task to ask the RIGHT questions and to do side research and educate yourself. BR or I are not paid or responsible to TEACH YOU ANYTHING, yet you expect that.
ITs your job to make it fun for us and make it easy for us, its not our job or responsibility to do anything with you.
You say, you want to learn from us, so telling us we are wrong is not an attack????? how funny is that?
The absolute truth is, you do not have to believe anything or do anything, but if you want to learn or possibly learn something, you have to take the conflict out of your approach. After all, my gut feeling is to tell you folks to go to heck, I really do not care what you do or understand. After all, the vast majority of the public do not understand reptiles or animals in any way. So whats a few more?
In the end, its about asking the right questions. If you do that, you can gain some insight, if not, forget about it.
Lastly, if you see two bald eagles hanging out together, and nesting together, year after year, you would not have a problem calling them a bonded pair, would you? If you see two alligators doing the same, would you call them bonded? Then if you saw two kingsnakes do the same, are they bonded? If not, why not?
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RE: Experiments and such, the reality - FR, Sat Jun 2 10:57:27 2012
