-----"So if I have a Indigo with lower than average IQ and an eastern king with an above average IQ ,then what? I have noticed that intelligence levels can vary with with snakes."



On intelligence only, imagine your smartest Downs Syndrome Kid versus your dumbest college track kid.



------I think if you have two eastern kings going agaist each other the smarter one will win (kinda like a purple belt and a brown belt)but is the lower intelligence eastern able to beat the higher intelligence of the different style fighter the Indigo is?



Not good example. More like same belt level, king just knows BJJ, Indigo is more MMA-overlaping skills.



------Well Madmatt, coming from a BJJ guy that has florida kings and Dry's I must concede with some of your knowledge on who is the better fighter.



Actually no, don't. When you responded to the other fellow about kings being dominant to Drys because of the analogy to MMA/BJJ my main purpose was to bring more breadth to discussion by showing 1)drys have more tricks than had been discussed so far and 2)Drys are "grapplers" too, maybe better to say MMA.

I am just trying to add understanding to both animals and allow you more of a window to begin to get a picture about drys, which you don't seem to have much experience with. You watch ultimate, boxers win sometimes, regular ol' collegiate wrestlers even.





----You bring up a good point about the Indigos being a smart animal. But will this intelligence be enough to take on a constrictor with one good submission?



You've seen better fighters lose in torneys because of really petty mistakes or even bad luck? slips, gi caught around something not supposed to, etc. Any given match with as many hypothetical factors controlled for can yield unexpected nuances.



------You mentioned the Drys being able to crush (or cut off circulation on an animal. But a florida kings guard (BJJ term for wrapping around ones opponent) is going to catch the Indigo everytime. Now if the Indigo is smart enough to pass guard (from intelligence) then maybe it can gain control long enough to set that crushing submission bite in and fish the king. But not likely!



OK, What happens if you are in process of placing me in guard while I have your head in a real tight guillotine? Or, in the snakes case, placing his coils around an animal that is decapitating him or least breaking his neck? They do this to rats, lots of bones are obviously broken where they clamp down.



-----Personally I don't think a Indigo could stop a Eastern King with its crushing bite alone.

Especially if an indigo bite has never been felt! I've had mistaken feeding responses of FLA's and indigos on my hands. That experince paints a much, much different picture.



-----Once the eastern gets going (even facing certain death) it will not stop . This is something different and more primative than humans could conceve in a fight. Kinda like a shark. Once their minds have been made up, good luck stopping them.



Great point! I would say their circulation systems and being cold blooded allow for muted effects of constriction and blood loss in either case. This opens up new doors entirely! Also, being cold blooded and different species, I think they have different optimum operating temperatures, even though all my animals have ranges that are shared!





------Anyone who has had a constrictor has possibly made the mistake of aloowing your snake to confuse it with a prey item. Well its nearly impossible to get them off even with human hands. This happens to me on occasion with the rosy boas I keep. They have big teeth for their size and wrap around and keep tightening. You can run them under water ect and some will just never give up.The more you try and unwrap the deeper the teeth sink in and the snake just has a way of transition from one submission to another.



See above



-----So with the painful and possibly mortal wound the Indigo can inflict I still don't think its enough to get the eastern to quit (unlike us humans)and the eastern would prevail.



True, I think the Indigo has a better sense of when to cut its losses due to its intelligence.



Near decapitation or broken necks can give a snake a bad day!



-----But as far as the Dry's intelligence in a fight well it would still have to be pretty damn smart to flat out pin and eleviate any of the Easterns submission choke. Yep!



Believe it or not, I think it would be a coin-toss of lots of other factors, the BJJ advantage of kings is mute becasue they are both pronbe to use BJJ techniques, but I hope you realize as much as I can talk, it is really nothing compared to getting a mistaken feeding response from indigo or other dry. Ask a friend to help you out and this is the best way for you to settle the issue in your mind. Your thinking makes sense but so does that of typical people we meet on the street-"Oh, I am bigger than him that BJJ can't compensate a three inch difference in height and my outweighing him by forty pounds!" They would give us a lot of fun, the MMA is ust theoretical to them because they can't imagine it. Can't blame them and if I took everyone up on the their ignorance I would be in jail.

Matt

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