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Posted by: Joe Forks at Tue Sep 20 13:15:51 2005 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by Joe Forks ]

decided that I really messed that up, so let me rephrase the questions.

1) Do you believe splendida and holbrooki are valid subs?

and the reason I ask.....

The characters that decipher holbrooki from splendida are

a) Black belly in splendida and checkered belly in holbrooki -

this character does not hold up. my Brewster county splendida has a checkered belly.

b) Dorsal scale rows - does not hold up because there is overlap, and other species have proven clinal variation in ventrals and or dorsal scale rows (mexicana, alterna, triangulum)

c) spots on every scale in holbrooki - a variable pattern even on a consistent basis alone is not enough to warrant sub specific status.

I honestly don't know what to believe in regards to splendida and holbrooki being being valid subspecies?? Has mtDNA work been done on the group? As in the Burbrink example it could lead to "lumping" rather than "splitting".

Forky

[ Hide Replies ]

More on the intergrade kings.... - crimsonking, Mon Sep 19 21:08:57 2005

RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - snakesunlimited1, Mon Sep 19 21:19:27 2005

since opinions are free and worthless, I'll offer one... - Joe Forks, Mon Sep 19 21:38:33 2005

RE: since opinions are free and worthless, I'll offer one... - crimsonking, Mon Sep 19 23:05:36 2005

RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - jlassiter, Mon Sep 19 21:58:02 2005

RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - antelope, Fri Sep 23 01:15:51 2005

RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - antelope, Fri Sep 23 01:20:27 2005

RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - ratsnakehaven, Fri Sep 23 10:45:58 2005

RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - antelope, Sat Sep 24 11:28:51 2005

RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - chrish, Mon Sep 19 23:08:38 2005

does the term intergrade have a specific implication? - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 09:36:13 2005

If I may cut in... - ratsnakehaven, Tue Sep 20 10:44:50 2005

RE: If I may cut in... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 12:14:31 2005

oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 12:29:49 2005

a URL to Burbrinks paper... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 12:38:24 2005

RE: oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - ratsnakehaven, Tue Sep 20 13:11:03 2005

RE: oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - ratsnakehaven, Tue Sep 20 14:05:09 2005

RE: oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 14:35:08 2005

RE: oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - ratsnakehaven, Tue Sep 20 15:17:59 2005

Just a quick scan of the paper.... - chrish, Tue Sep 20 22:15:51 2005

RE: Just a quick scan of the paper.... - ratsnakehaven, Wed Sep 21 06:52:35 2005

well I re-read this and.... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 13:15:51 2005

RE: well I re-read this and.... - Dobry, Tue Sep 20 15:50:42 2005

RE: well I re-read this and.... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 16:36:27 2005

RE: well I re-read this and.... - Dobry, Tue Sep 20 20:41:44 2005

RE: does the term intergrade have a specific implication? - chrish, Tue Sep 20 22:00:05 2005

RE: does the term intergrade have a specific implication? - antelope, Fri Sep 23 01:50:45 2005

>> Next topic: 1 - some Bexar county Kings ... dial-up warning - large pics... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 14:51:28 2005
<< Previous topic: 2005 hatchling pyro - phhb001, Mon Sep 19 20:28:53 2005

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well I re-read this and....

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