decided that I really messed that up, so let me rephrase the questions.

1) Do you believe splendida and holbrooki are valid subs?

and the reason I ask.....

The characters that decipher holbrooki from splendida are
a) Black belly in splendida and checkered belly in holbrooki -
this character does not hold up. my Brewster county splendida has a checkered belly.
b) Dorsal scale rows - does not hold up because there is overlap, and other species have proven clinal variation in ventrals and or dorsal scale rows (mexicana, alterna, triangulum)
c) spots on every scale in holbrooki - a variable pattern even on a consistent basis alone is not enough to warrant sub specific status.

I honestly don't know what to believe in regards to splendida and holbrooki being being valid subspecies?? Has mtDNA work been done on the group? As in the Burbrink example it could lead to "lumping" rather than "splitting".

Forky

[ Hide Replies ]

• More on the intergrade kings.... - crimsonking, Mon Sep 19 21:08:57 2005
• RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - snakesunlimited1, Mon Sep 19 21:19:27 2005
• since opinions are free and worthless, I'll offer one... - Joe Forks, Mon Sep 19 21:38:33 2005
• RE: since opinions are free and worthless, I'll offer one... - crimsonking, Mon Sep 19 23:05:36 2005
• RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - jlassiter, Mon Sep 19 21:58:02 2005
• RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - antelope, Fri Sep 23 01:15:51 2005
• RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - antelope, Fri Sep 23 01:20:27 2005
• RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - ratsnakehaven, Fri Sep 23 10:45:58 2005
• RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - antelope, Sat Sep 24 11:28:51 2005
• RE: More on the intergrade kings.... - chrish, Mon Sep 19 23:08:38 2005
• does the term intergrade have a specific implication? - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 09:36:13 2005
• If I may cut in... - ratsnakehaven, Tue Sep 20 10:44:50 2005
• RE: If I may cut in... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 12:14:31 2005
• oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 12:29:49 2005
• a URL to Burbrinks paper... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 12:38:24 2005
• RE: oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - ratsnakehaven, Tue Sep 20 13:11:03 2005
• RE: oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - ratsnakehaven, Tue Sep 20 14:05:09 2005
• RE: oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 14:35:08 2005
• RE: oh, and I left out intergrade because.... - ratsnakehaven, Tue Sep 20 15:17:59 2005
• Just a quick scan of the paper.... - chrish, Tue Sep 20 22:15:51 2005
• RE: Just a quick scan of the paper.... - ratsnakehaven, Wed Sep 21 06:52:35 2005
• well I re-read this and.... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 13:15:51 2005
• RE: well I re-read this and.... - Dobry, Tue Sep 20 15:50:42 2005
• RE: well I re-read this and.... - Joe Forks, Tue Sep 20 16:36:27 2005
• RE: well I re-read this and.... - Dobry, Tue Sep 20 20:41:44 2005
• RE: does the term intergrade have a specific implication? - chrish, Tue Sep 20 22:00:05 2005
• RE: does the term intergrade have a specific implication? - antelope, Fri Sep 23 01:50:45 2005