>>basically I have implied a meaning already in the post you replied to above.

>>

>>To me, an intergrade is the product of a breeding from two forms that are at least slightly divergent from each other (i.e. subspecies).

>>





>>However, IF splendida and holbrookii are just natural variants of getula and can not be separated by distinctive traits, then those "intermediate forms are not true "intergrades".

>>



How true. That's why we need to look at each case, and determine how strong the subspecies is. For example: splendida meets nigrita, supposedly, along the border of Mexico and Arizona. But is nigrita really a good subspecies? I personally think it's just a melanistic splendida, not a strong subspecies. But others think a snake in AZ that is black is nigrita. I have to argue that it's an intergrade, otherwise we could be having to protect all the kings in s. AZ as nigrita someday.



>>This premise is basically the reason for our whole discussion here and below. And again, even if it holds true in this case, it's not "black and white" and may not be applicable in other species groups.

>>

>>Or on the same note. Was Burbrink really justified to sink all those subs of guttata, bring back New world "Elaphe" and recognize three species "emoryi", "slowinskii", and "guttata"?

>>It was very pertinent that you brought the guttata group into the discussion, a group that ranges from the Jalpan Valley in Queratero, NW to Utah and east to (New Jersey?).

>>

>>Forks



Bringing up Burbrink, now that's a can of worms, ahaha. Don't agree, don't agree! I think he has real problems, especially trying to justify "slowinskii" as a full species. I think most of us look at it as a subspecies of corn snake. I do believe slowinskii intergrades with meahllmorum along the Gulf Coast, however, allowing some genes to pass back and forth from G P rats to corns, etc.



Boy, what fun! Keep it up



Terry






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