ok phil i can see your a splitter and thats cool, but im a lumper and having kept&bred both suppossed ssp.for several years from several localities it is my opinion they are they same snake. and ftr some nigra DO develop speckles into the bar/chain pattern and some holbrooki loose it,i beleive it has to do with range are you really gonna base ssp.status on that??phenotypes? your title says it,,,1 key differance,,,but thats just it there is NO key differance at all in nigra&holbrooki, i remember i was sad when yumensis was DE-classified as califoriae but after working with them i came to that very same conclusion they are the same just patterned differantly as ALL getula are,like FR says the snakes dont know what we people have named/classified them as and neither do they care its only important to us for some inexplicable reason????????,,,,,,thomas davis

[ Hide Replies ]

• Is this holbrooki? - the_Ox, Fri Sep 23 23:14:10 2005
• RE: Is this holbrooki? - chrish, Sat Sep 24 16:22:45 2005
• RE: Is this holbrooki? - chrish, Sat Sep 24 16:24:22 2005
• I would say it is an intergrade.... - gratefuldead, Sat Sep 24 19:10:57 2005
• Thanx guys, but - the_Ox, Sat Sep 24 20:54:19 2005
• RE: Is this holbrooki? - thomas davis, Sat Sep 24 23:25:19 2005
• one key difference though.... - Phil Peak, Sun Sep 25 12:39:20 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - thomas davis, Mon Sep 26 10:44:57 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - Phil Peak, Tue Sep 27 08:05:51 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - thomas davis, Tue Sep 27 09:44:42 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - Phil Peak, Tue Sep 27 13:49:33 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - thomas davis, Tue Sep 27 16:54:25 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - Phil Peak, Tue Sep 27 17:53:39 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - antelope, Tue Sep 27 23:49:47 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - Phil Peak, Wed Sep 28 18:20:49 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - thomas davis, Wed Sep 28 09:21:45 2005
• RE: one key difference though.... - Phil Peak, Wed Sep 28 18:22:21 2005
• RE: Is this holbrooki? - Phil Peak, Sun Sep 25 12:27:43 2005