Yes Thomas, I am admittedly a splitter when it comes to classification. If the idea behind classification is to establish and define variation throughout a species range I find it a useful tool. No doubt we are dealing with the same species and I would be the first to admit the concept of subspecies is an abstract one to a degree and a number of ssp's have been dropped over the years. I do like the system though and while maybe not perfect in the present case I think there are enough differences between specks and blacks to warrant separate subs. As Frank likes to say, here's something else to consider. In the southeastern part of nigra's range they intergrade with getula. One could make the argument that a nigra is simply a getula that loses the chain pattern as it matures and is thus the same snake. If getula and nigra are the same snake and nigra and holbrooki are the same snake then one could deduce that getula and holbrooki are one and the same. Next thing you know they are all the same lol! Of course they are the same species at the end of the day and the similarities are more than the differences. Phil

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