Honestly I do believe that nigra and holbrooki are closer than either are with getula. But, using the criteria you used, ground color = black to dark brown, the same could be said for most kingsnakes including getula. I think groud color of black or brown would describe them very well. For that matter, I have seen hundreds and hundreds of nigra and have yet to see one I would describe as brown. I have seen both getula and holbrooki that I would describe as brownish though.

As to the size differences I would agree that getula does get far larger. On the otherhand I think this only applies to those from the southern part of their range such as S.C., Ga and north Fla though. I have asked the size question to people on this forum that were familiar with getula in their northern range such as Va, Md and N.C. and the response I received was overwhelming that the easterns from those more northern areas of their distribution was more on par with what I see with Ky nigra. Essentially a 4' to 5' snake. I know there are notable exceptions with some snakes in captivity but the same applies to nigra. I have a friend that has a nigra thats been in captivity for 10+ years and it is enormous. Wolfs down medium sized rats for example and far exceeds in size anything I have seen in the wild. we should also remember that the biggest holbrooki in the books is a 6' monster that I bet probably was found down in La or southeastern Texas. I think you are dead on about head shape. I do see differences between all though. I see getula as broader and large. nigra as narrower and deeper by proportion and holbrooki somewhat in between.

So to answer your question on how I see nigra and holbrooki being different? I see it like this,
nigra = uniform black with either no trace of pattern dorsally or with VERY faint obscure chain patterning in the form of cross bars. Between the cross bars the scales are black with NO speckling. It is important to note that some populations especially those from lowland populations often retain to a greater or lesser degree the neonate pattern which is cross bars dorsally and some degree of patterning on the sides usually in a vague chain pattern. Ventral coloration is equally marked with black and cream/yellow in a tight pattern.

holbrooki = speckling on scales between cross bars if present. Depending on locality they may have cross bars as well as speckling or lack cross bars all together and be uniformly speckled. Belly scales predominately unpatterned with a few black markings here and there.

These snakes are VERY similar in many ways in morphology as are all kingsnakes to a degree. I don't think we are arguing Thomas. I think its more a matter of how you and I gauge differences and similarities between snakes. I think one thing that enters into the equation is this. Most nigra that have been available on the market appear to be northern Ala stock. I have seen pics of these snakes and in my mind they are vastly different than say a nigra from the Ky knobs for example. If my only frame of reference was from that locale I may have an opinion much the same as yours. Not say that there is anything wrong with those snakes, I love all kings personally and find them all interesting. Phil

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