>>You have no idea what your talking about, hahahahahahaha, 20 or so specimens from a totally different local. That sir, does not make sense.
>>

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I meant no offense by my remarks. I only want to discuss with you because it seems you're trying to figure out what to call these kings and how they interact, as I am. BTW, I've been looking at the kings from the Santa Cruz River Valley for about four years, at least, and I've seen my twenty and dozens from other herpers in the area. Also I've listened to all their arguments and comments. I know that there are similarities in the getula from Nogales to Tucson and that it is an intergrade area, thought to be a three way intergrade area by most, including Stebbins from his field guide. I could include several important herpetologists, but thought you would consider just my ideas, because they do make sense, to me, LOL. Also, my base location, where I live parttime, is only about twenty miles south of Tucson, and I have herped all over the area. I just haven't spent much time in Tucson itself. I do appreciate the pictures you've showed and your insights. Thanks again.

>> I could throw large numbers at you, but I will give you an idea. I live here, I have hunted here, since 1967, I have seen hundreds if not more from each of many many many different locals within this area.
>>

I'm not doubting what you've seen. Some of the areas I've hunted snakes in go back to the 50's. I'm just saying that the kingsnakes I'm seeing are in the Santa Cruz River Valley, as I thought yours were, and I think I understand what's happening there and what those snakes are. That's what I thought we were discussing up til a point. Did you read my second post, addressed to Lassiter? After I made that first post to you I started thinking you were talking about a different locale, somewhere west or sw. of Tucson. You said sw. Tucson before. Maybe we need to make the location more exact, or are you trying to avoid that?

>> Also, the black kings along the border are splendida, they hatch out of the same clutches as the splendida types, so it would be difficult to say they are a different subspecies. But thanks for the input. I do hope your dying day is a long way off, because this subject is not that important, as I say, they are what they are, no matter what we call them. Cheers FR

Thanks. I'm glad you said that. I think those along the border are splendida too. Did you know that they were up for listing as a protected subspecies by Game and Fish last year? Obviously, many of the state's herpetologists think they are nigrita and they need protecting. That's a good one, eh??

I hope my dying day is a long way off to, because I want to enjoy my retirement in AZ. I agree they are what they are, but it is important to me, because it's one of my favorite species to work with, and I am very interested in the classification of the kings, as well as other aspects about them. Sorry if I caused you any concern, and thanks for the strand. I learned a lot, my whole point. I do wish I knew more about some of your locations, however. Cheers, and good luck in the future

TC

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