I was wondering were you were in these conversations, I am glad you were reading them.



First, I and others have seen all sorts of confusing events. That is, many snakes overwinter with ovum or embryos in their bodies. Also, many egg laying snakes deposit their eggs in the fall and those eggs overwinter. A better question is, is this normal for the species or exceptional for the species. In the case of montane rattlesnakes(on our site) it appears very normal. Also it appears subocs normally have their eggs overwinter. In other snakes, it may or may not, be normal but still occurs of an occasional basis. So yes, it occurs, but it may or may not be normal.



A point I was making below, in my retarted effort to help is, there is a basic misunderstanding of how wild snakes work. Most including Phil, bases his thoughts of air temperature. I understand what is what we were taught(shame on those teachers) The problem is, snakes do not give a flying shack ankle about air temps. They focus on mass temps. If one was get out of a tiny box(enclosed paradign) and try to understand mass temps, they would soon realize, there is a huge range of mass temps in any givin area, including the northern parts of reptile ranges. These mass temps must include a basic minimum or exsistance is impossible.



Also consider these mass temps lag behind the season. That sir is physical law and common sense. The mass of lags behind the season. I use the term "mass" because the term substrate does not indicate volume. And volume is very important.



The sun(sun exposure is key) heats up an area that holds heat, this area, holds this heat. These areas lose mass temperature as the winter moves in. By time spring starts the mass temps are at their lowest and of course you understand the snakes then have a need to surface to warm up. So in general, the mass of their habitats, heat up in the spring, summer, fall, then drop off during the winter. But where physical law fits in is, this drop off lags behind the season. Now as importantly, these areas are of a insulating type of material AND a moisture resistant material. Water transfers heat quickly.



Why I mention the above is, these mass areas contain suitable heat for life events, even thought air temps seem inappropriate. So an individual snake with food in its stomack my venture to the surface in late fall or early winter and seem to be, out of place in our minds. But it knows it has temps that are suitable. You just don't see them.



For me, if I see this type of event, a gravid or full snake in the winter, I realize that its "real" home or heat sink, is nearby. Its evidence.



Lastly, captive conditions are very very limiting. Captive snakes(in general) do not have the same abilities as wild snakes(the reason I preach a range of temps and conditions) In nature, they can without problem hold a food bolus in very cold temps without reguritating. Also in nature, food bolus do not rot, that is, they do not bloat after consuming a prey item. I have seen many events that make you think, like a wild, ruthie, that was stuffed with lizards(scalies) until there were tails hanging out its mouth. The odd part was, is was near the surface, a ground crack, and the temps were freezing. At least the due on the ground was frozen. Yet, the snake had no problems digesting. I dare any of you to allow one or all of your snakes to be exposed to freezing temps while full of food.



So again yes, they can do things in nature that appear impossible in captivity or at least rare.



As you know, snakes in captivity will not feed if the conditions are not right. This transfers to wild snakes well. They will not feed if conditions are not suitable. The difference is, wild snakes have a known set of conditions they can rely on. They know where usable heat is. They know were conditions are that do not dehydrate them. They know this or they would not do something so silly as feeding in the winter.



Another better question is, how and why does this occur. That sir is a really great question. I have many theories and hypothocies(is that a word in any spelling) I have a strange feeling its all(mostly) about moisture. Some hints are, captives tend to be bloated, not fat, just full of water(toxemia or something) wild snakes seem to be solid, like they have physical control of water. I get the feeling its based on dehydration. In a sense, captives are not dehydrated but the opposite, to full of water to deal with cold temps. Again, please understand, this is theory. I can do that too.



Again, thanks Tom for the great questions, if I missed some, please try again, and I hope this helps. Cheers FR

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