Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm having a really hard time getting my hypo glades babies started! Out of 17 only 3 will eat f/t pinks.I've tried leaving them overnite,braining,live etc.I've heatd of using tuna water for water snakes and stuff but does it work for rats? Thanks!
Jeff

I have used pinkies scented with lizards (Mediterranean geckos and green anoles) with some success for picky baby guttatus and emoryi. And, I've used tease feeding for my pair of baby rhino rats with success. All of the baby obsoletus I've kept (Texas and black rats) have been easy to start, but I have never kept Everglades rats before. I know that our local south Texas lindheimeri will take anoles as babies in the wild - maybe Everglades rats will too, and you might try scenting with anoles or geckos. I freeze a lizard for a week or so to kill any parasites it may be carrying, before using it for scenting...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Thanks Toby! I'll try an anole.
Jeff

No problem, Jeff.

Let us know if it works...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I used to get like 50 yellow and 40 glades babies a year...
never used a lizard on any of them...
almost all would eat fast enough....
yours are still young Jeffrey....
just set on them for a little while yet.....I don't panic for weeks.....and balls...I have had baby ball at almost 3 months old finally eat....(no I don't usually wait that long till I "do something"....).....

....good luck.....!!!

..
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........JY

Well - since you responded under my post, rather than under Jeff's, I'll answer you as well. I also would not use lizards for scenting immediately - but there comes a point when different methods should be tried. Why are some folks so ready to shoot down other folks' offers of advice, I wonder. I do have experience, and my thoughts are not empty words. This is the sort of thing that makes posting on the forums of this site so infuriating sometimes - (some) people always want to one-up you on anything, and everyone who has kept snakes for "X" years is an "expert". I have been keeping snakes since at least the late 1970's and breeding them since 2004 - but I still don't consider myself to be an expert - and I know I am still learning.

I would not wait 3 months for a baby rat snake of any species to eat - they are not fat ball pythons - so they (balls) don't really make for good analogy here IMO. I would wait a few weeks but not months.

I HAVE used lizards to get "stubborn" baby rats to eat - with success. I don't do this immediately, and it is near last resort, before force feeding - and yes, I've had some that would not eat EVER and had to be force fed to keep them from starving. Not obsoletus, but they were in the large group of snakes considered to be rat snakes.

Note to Jeff - yes, I would also "wait" a few weeks before trying scenting. I sort of felt this was "implied", but thought I would clarify...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Hey Chief, I don't think the guy was trying to one up on you at all. He was just explaining from his experiences that scenting wasn't necessary and to wait a little longer. His comments are informative and well intentioned, so relax son.

>>Hey Chief, I don't think the guy was trying to one up on you at all. He was just explaining from his experiences that scenting wasn't necessary and to wait a little longer. His comments are informative and well intentioned, so relax son.

Sure - okay, son...

Since he responded to "me" (under my post rather than to the original poster), I felt within my rights / priveledges to respond - and "my" comments were also informative and well intentioned.

It is difficult to tell where someone is coming from in online posts lots of times, and I am willing to concede that I may have gone off a bit half-cocked, so to speak...

I DO agree on waiting to use scenting as a last resort sort of thing BTW - before force feeding...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

under your post....maybe...maybe not tried?...I look later...
right now....>>>

try what you like...

yes...you know your stuff...

yes ...I been there done it all...one way or the other...

YES glades eat stuff...all kinds of stuff...

I didn;t shoot anything down...I do not want lizards in this scene at all...

YES I ACTUALLY WANT TO BUY A SHIPLOAD OF THESE GLADES MAYBE? OR EVEN 4? -----2? WHATEVER...AND I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE PROBLEM LIZARD EATERS ...AND I WON'T BUY THEM IF THEY EAT LIZARDS...

so ..it would be better to wait...and see if they eat mices...

see...it all makes sence....

right?...

..have a nice day.....
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........JY

I would not want to buy a rat snake which was only taking lizards or lizard-scented mice either - good point!
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

all cool...

points ...

I am 51, I type first, I do not know almost everyone in here , I do not care, I own 150 snakes on a downsized /soldout day, I work 8 hours and more a day at a factory ,whining,LOL, I have 2000 plus rodents, a half dozen people use my rodents,plus another guy retails my stuff for me... I want to stop, I want out of 300 snakes and more, right now ? all boxes full, 300? 400?....my best year had 800 eggs, like 500 hatched, this last month I threw 10 to 15 grand in the tra$h, (balls, stupidity and a bad incubator,my mistake), I want out...LOL...I want 30 good balls and buy rats...that's it.....I cannot breed southwestern dry climate species...too humid in the celler...

I have Jeff's albino yellows...the day after I got them I wanted to kill the female...she would not let go...now we agree with each other, they know me, and I them, I feed them 3 times a week and more....I want hypo glades...I have no room, or need for them ,or any colubrid....I bred ridleyi for the first time...sold just one female...the shows here suck...people want $10 snakes ,crickets and a snow cone?-- wtf.....people in PA suck,,,even the ones that drive here from NY and NJ...!...stuff won't sell, nothing...boas,corns,anything...they want cheap...$3 turtles...wheeee.....and they then want to hold my balls?...yea...alright..go away....>...balls sell less than wholesale....I do volume....that sux...

....anyways..>I love to rant....I love to buy snakes...I just wish they sold like they should...years ago...reptile shows just started...I did 2 a year and sold all 150 plus babies I made each year...all ,in 2 shows...when I buy, I used to buy alot...dozens of things at a time..not now...I used to have 80 ? adult corns?...now...3 ....my friend just gave away all his colubrids..rather than some moron who got them cheap and wholesale making more on them than he would...he gave them away ...yep....

..have fun...good luck.....keep on breeding....>>>>

...hopefully, the 2 eggs I peeked into tonight , actually ARE Queen Bees....!.....
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........JY

Well - you've got age and volume of snakes on me, for certain. I don't know everyone here either - some I've been talking to for years though (and a small few are good friends). (I'll whine a little too - LOL) I'll be 42 soon, have back problems, work 8 plus hours a day outdoors in the south Texas inferno (100 plus degrees plus high humidity) - often fixing water line breaks during this drought, or something equally tedious. Then - I often work some more at home or at my family's houses - currently fixing my home's floors and doorways...

My highest number of snakes probably got up to somewhere around 60-ish snakes. That was too much work to be fun for me, and I recently decided to downsize even more to around 25 - 30-ish snakes, and a few mouse colonies - this is much more fun and less like a second job. I will be focusing on a few pairs of just a few species of rat snakes now: green rats, rhino rats, Chinese beauties, Twin-spot ratsnakes, and some day maybe prasina and / or frenata...

I think / hope shows in Texas are maybe getting a little better, and I've seen a few more interesting colubrids in the last few years. Although - interest in Old World rats still seems to be minimal, and they are hard to sell here...

Best of luck with the Queen Bees...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Not panicing yet! It's just frustrating as crap!!Lol! Anoles aren't native here but I tried a f/t skink last night and no one ate but it worked for a stubborn baby mole king my neighbor gave me! I'll keep you posted!! Jeff

All great advice, Jeff, including that they may still be digesting yolk material and just not yet ready.
.
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Just a few more notes, if it comes to this.
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Instead of lizards, tree frogs (both Hyla and Pseudacris } are easier to scent with. (They are one of the mainstay prey items of eastern ratsnake hatchlings, north and south.) (Corns as well)
.
Tease feeding:
forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=1401787,1402631&key=2007
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Finally, a "pinky pump" is an absolute last choice, but works when no other does.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Jeff,

It does not surprise me that a stubborn kingsnake took a skink-scented mouse. Also - as has been mentioned elsewhere, it would probably be a good idea to wait a while before trying lizard scenting on those rats. How old are they any way?

I did not mention in my original repsonse - but I would use scenting of any kind as a last resort, just before force feeding. I would probably try tease feeding, braining, live pinks, etc. before scenting...

Great advice from Bill as well...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

are they not just a week old Jeffrey???

....you are hurrying....LOL....they'll make it...

what temp you got them at?...change it...84? go 80......79? go to 84....snakes are weird....you knew that....

what you feed the mice?....their diet makes a difference too...

feed the mice lizards?.....(no...nevermind)....

....
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........JY

Okay, after some thinking this morning, after reading Richard's response - I realize that I jumped the gun somewhat on my defensive response. I am not normally a forum hot head, and I don't condone that sort of thing - so I apologize, J Yohe...

No excuses - but I think my current DIY home improvement project is making me extra irritable.
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Good move Toby!!!! Takes a man to apologize!!! And I consider you an expert!!!! Funny, most people who don't consider themselves experts really are and those with swelled heads are always trying to convince others they are!!!

Pat

Thanks, Pat - I really appreciate that.

The response for which I apologized was a result of a "temporarily" swelled head - mine. LOL So, I feel I am no better than any other here on the forum. I still don't / won't consider myself an "expert" per se - but I do have some "experience"...

My experience comes from a background of field herping and self study / learning, through books and personal keeping observations. I did not even become an internet user until 2005!

Your post below brings to mid something which has been lurking in the back of my thoughts regarding corn snakes (and most likely other rat snakes) from south Florida - taking anoles as juveniles. Our south Texas lindheimeri certainly do.

BTW, the MDF backing on laminate flooring molding is the DEVIL! My advice is to avoid it or have someone else do it, if you can...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

....the kingsnake forum, Pat...only as you know nothing else on this earth could possibly compare..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I still have yet to go back and read my first responce....
I usually do what you did...read...type...think....wait...yea..that's it..type frist think later...I been doing it for years on here...

no apology necessary....we are all snake people...we are all stupid....and smart...most people just don't get it / us...

....anyways....glades and yellows....I didn't scent...75 maybe a year....and maybe a couple didn't eat....most did...
friends' glades...7 foot,huge, orange, all babies would eat...another guy...bought 2 glades...would not eat for squat and they are 2 years old and year old sized....it's all luck at times and genetics....

mouse's food ...I use Zeigler...they have FISH as a protein source....fish...so the mice have a lizardy ,fishy smell already,....I'd bet....

.......

I hate non-feeding animals....and feed them to- feeding animals alot of times....with corns it's easy...$2 ,is what a friend got for them last week at the show......wheeeee.......

.....

....all good...all fun...all good luck to you peoples....
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........JY

LOL! Okay - no hard feelings then? None here...

I rarely (if ever) fly off the handle like that - must have been the heat and the holes in my floor making me temporarily hostile yesterday.

Yeah - all kinds of different reactions from snakes of all kinds. I recently got a green rat snake back from a friend, which was not eating for him. I told him how I had mine set up, temps, etc. - everything, and I believe he tried to emulate it - snake still wouldn't eat. So - he sent the snake back. I offered the snake a fuzzy mouse the first night back, and it ate it, and has not refused a meal yet - strange stuff...

Mouse food with fish in it - hmm, that is interesting. I may try to get some of that stuff for my mice - might make getting picky baby rhino rats to eat a little easier...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Zeigler rodent chow....it's from Garner,PA,I thinik it is...
not sure if it's worth the try....I actually like Muzuir better...never used Harlan ....Zeigler is all they have here at the Agway...they got it when Muzuri went to 18 a bag...Zeigler was 12 ....now...it too is 20$ a bag, 50 pounds...(sux...I know guys that use skids a week or more....)....

fish is easy to get...open tuna...

corns...tried 50 one day with tuna dipped pinks...
0 ate it...well...I tried...(it works with hognose they say...etc..)

usually just change it all and it might work....

....green rats and baja rats...someday maybe...not in the basement....>>>
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........JY

All good points on foods and feeding...

It is very hot and very humid during the summer here, but I have found that my green rats do fine in an air conditioned room. Ambient temps in the mid 70's - low 80's (night - day), with a warm spot of around 85 - 90 F. They actually seem to need / like a moist hide, but they do need good ventilation - and ambient humidity should be on the dry side. The air conditioning helps keep the humidity down in my snake room...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

tried some western snakes...thayeri ,greeri and alterna did fairly well...well...good actually...

sonoran gophers, after a year or so...something was wrong....

my air in the dungeon...well...it rains in all the time...with 2 to 30 gallons of water on the floor...(I clean it up)......it stays wet....balls and ridleyi etc etc love it...

the air they breathe is what screws alot of snakes up....they just can't take it....

....downsized...how you do that?...noone buys stuff....!...

and they are talking maybe another recession?...yea....LOL
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........JY

Yeah, I can see how wet air like that would be a problem for arid-land southwestern snakes. I bet oxycephalum, coxi, rhinos, and all of the beauties would do well for you...

Well, I have been gifting (or trading) a lot of my adult breeders to good friends, who like / work with the same stuff. You're right about stuff not selling well these days...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Just curious--aren't Glades from the same general area as Miami Corns??? I used to have F1 and F2 kids from WC Miami Corns that would only take lizards for the first few feedings(The loves used to sell Miamis that started out as lizard feeders) Since Anoles readily available and came from the same area they worked great!!! I'd try Anoles.