Reptile & Amphibian Forums

how does everyone keep their's? i know they are suppose to be kept cool, but other than that, it is hard to find good solid info on them. i'm asking those that keep them to please give me some advice. thank you

I keep mine around 78 with a warm spot of 82 (they never use it), but I shut off all heat at night, and the room gets down to 72 this time of year.
I also provide a fairly large water bowl, a hide filled with slightly dampened sphagnum moss, and paper towel for a substrate.

Mine feed on F/T pink rats once a week, and seem to do okay with the setup they are in.
hope that helps.

>>how does everyone keep their's? i know they are suppose to be kept cool, but other than that, it is hard to find good solid info on them. i'm asking those that keep them to please give me some advice. thank you

I kept mine bt. 68-82*F, April-Dec, usually room temp. They needed fairly high humidity, a moist hide for shedding helps. They like security a lot, so burrowing medium and good hides help. Keep them out of the way and undisturbed. Eventually they'll accept their environment and show themselves in early morning or late afternoon, maybe even during the day.

i got the 100 flower snake thursday. it shed and even ate for me already. it is VERY shy. the only thing that worries me is that it likes the warm end of its cage and i have always been told that they like it cool. the cool end is 71.3 degrees and the hot end is 84.4 degrees. should i be worried or am i just perinoid with my cool new snake?
on a side note, i love it!!! i've been trying to get one for over a year i finally found one.

>>i got the 100 flower snake thursday. it shed and even ate for me already. it is VERY shy. the only thing that worries me is that it likes the warm end of its cage and i have always been told that they like it cool. the cool end is 71.3 degrees and the hot end is 84.4 degrees. should i be worried or am i just perinoid with my cool new snake?
>>on a side note, i love it!!! i've been trying to get one for over a year i finally found one.

Yep! It sounds like you're a little paranoid. You've got a good temp range, although the warm end is a tad high I think. Then again, there's more to think about than just the temps.

You haven't said it's a juvenile, although I've assumed that. You haven't said where the hide boxes are, if any? You haven't said if there was any bedding to hide under? Are there any water jugs? In other words, the cage arrangements are important, as well as the temps. How about humidity? What's the humidity? If the humidity is low, the snake will prefer cooler temps, imo. Right now, if it's a juve, it will probably seek warmth for digestion, as long as it continues eating. The snake will tell you what temps are appropriate, as long as there are other options to go with the temp options. They need hiding options to go along with temp options. A big problem with juves is that we don't give them enough options, and if forced into unfavorable conditions, they won't do well.

Back to the 84.4*F, I think this is a tad high, but there's no reason the snake wouldn't use it to help with digestion. Prolonged exposure to that temp wouldn't be too great for the snake, imo. One thing is that it will likely be very dry. Try a moist hide and see if your snake prefers that. Try it at different temp gradients and see if it will continue to use it. As far as digestion, moellendorffi can digest at minimal temps, 70 to 80*, also. If your snake starts to have problems, like with shedding, for instance, or not eating, try lowering the temps at the high end. Just my opinion...good luck and give us a little more info on how it's doing.

TC

I keep mine at about 72-78 and I too recommend a 'wet hide'. I use a plastic bowl with cut out lid, filled with damp spagnum.
I also keep a dry hide - but they seem to prefer the wet hide.
I have 2.1 CB babies that are feeding and growing well.

i forgot to mention cage specifics... i should know better by now. it is a juvinile, just under 3 feet long. it has two big pieces of cork bark to hide under one on each end. i've been using Carefresh bedding until i make sure it has no mites or anything else like that. humidity is hanging in at around 70 to 80 percent. it burrowed down into the bedding under the cork on the warm side. but i am know to be perinoid.

Almost three ft. is not a 2006 juvenile. Sounds like a yearling, at least, to me. What kind of cage is it in? Maybe you could fit a larger hide than a piece of cork bark in there. They like it really secure. Your snake may pick the warmer end for security reasons rather than the heat. Good luck with it.

TC

it's in a 40 gallon breeder cage. 36x18x16 inches. the two pieces of cork are almost a foot long and roughly 4-6 inches across. i put one on the cool end and one on the warm end. the cage is going to get redecorated friday night after pay day. way more plants

>>it's in a 40 gallon breeder cage. 36x18x16 inches. the two pieces of cork are almost a foot long and roughly 4-6 inches across. i put one on the cool end and one on the warm end. the cage is going to get redecorated friday night after pay day. way more plants

Wow! That cage is huge. More than enough room for the snake to move around in. I suppose, when you redecorate, you'll put climbing things in it. Remember, though, that moellendorffi spends much of it's time hiding in tight places, out of sight, underground, etc. If I were walking in the open in South Texas or Florida, etc, and found something like bark, a board, or any such object on the surface, in 80 degree weather, what are my chances I'd find a snake like moellendorffi under it? Just trying to put my thinking in perspective for you. The snake (boy or girl?) is very unlikely to lie in the open or on branches for folks to look at. You probably won't see it much if it has a chance to hide. I would think about creating some type of hide boxes, ground level or higher, or maybe even a false bottom, in the future for that snake.

Hope this works out for you and keep us posted on your progress. I may not keep moellendorffi anymore, but I'm interested in how they are doing in the hobby, and what the best way is to keep them, obviously. Thanks for letting me rattle on..heheh!

PS: How do you heat the warm end?

TC

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

i heat with "moonlights", blue bulbs. after it gets a check up and pay day comes, i'll probably even do live plants.

you mentioned that the cage was huge. should i switch it to something smaller to make it feel more secure? my tawian beauty is in a 20 long. 30x12x12. i'm sure it would love the room.

>>you mentioned that the cage was huge. should i switch it to something smaller to make it feel more secure? my tawian beauty is in a 20 long. 30x12x12. i'm sure it would love the room.

Well, if it were me, I'd switch to something smaller. I had my big guy in a 20 gal tank...

He was over five ft. when I traded him off.

Most of my three ft. snakes I keep in ten gal. tanks. Most folks think that's too small, but I put a lot of fixtures in these cages and it pretty much fills them up. The snakes are most always hiding and they find a number of different places to hang out. First, I have a large, plastic container filled with paper towels and newspaper making a tight fit for any snake hiding therein. I use bottom heat which only covers a portion of this large hide. It sits on about one to two inches of aspen bedding which the snakes can burrow into and get under the hide, where it is a few degrees warmer, around 82*F. There is a large, gallon, plastic water jug in each cage. Even a large snake can coil up in one of these and soak for hours or days. There is a smaller water jug also for a tighter fit. Together they fit snuggly and don't ever tip over or spill water. The rest of the cage is covered in aspen bedding usually with wadded up paper on top of that. The snakes can crawl on top or under the wadded paper. Any defecations are easily cleanable. The snakes are very secure in this habitat and have a very naturalistic behavior, although it is much more functional than aesthetic.

PS: I always spray the bedding before feeding to stimulate appetite and raise humidity. Ratsnakes are very responsive to spikes in humidity. They can feed off the paper or in an empty water jug. I try to never put food directly on aspen, so snakes won't ingest the bedding. Sometimes I put in a moist hide for shedding, or other reasons. Plants aren't the only things that help make the habitat feel naturalistic to the snakes.

Cheers....TC

Great info on rat snake caging, Terry! I noticed the newspaper in your cages, in the last photo you sent me, and had given it some thought. It gives me good ideas for feeding, as I don't like to feed mine directly on aspen , either, but have found it difficult to keep them from dragging their food off of paper plates and onto the aspen.

-Toby

>>Great info on rat snake caging, Terry! I noticed the newspaper in your cages, in the last photo you sent me, and had given it some thought. It gives me good ideas for feeding, as I don't like to feed mine directly on aspen , either, but have found it difficult to keep them from dragging their food off of paper plates and onto the aspen.
>>
>>-Toby

Thanks, Toby.

I believe this is the photo you're talking about...

Notice the large water jug the snake is crawling on. One of my strategies is to empty the water out and put a mouse in the empty jug. The snake later crawls into the jug and eats the mouse. I often put crumpled newspaper on top of the bedding to increase the layers, etc. If the snake pulls the mouse out of the water jug onto the paper it still doesn't get into the aspen. I've been known to put a dead mouse at the entrance to the hidebox to tempt a snake also. One more feeding strategy is to take the snake out of the cage and feed it in a setting with no bedding.

Notice in the second photo the snake is coiled on top of some newspaper crumpled up to fit the extra space bt. the hide box and side of the cage. He chose that spot because of the time of the year and the sun was hitting that corner of the cage in the early morning and heating it up...

Most ratsnakes like a lot of security and tight spots like these meet this requirement. Their need for lots of space for exercise is overrated, imho. They don't move around that much and it's mostly to eat, drink, or change locations for some reason. Some folks even like to put a false bottom in their cage, but you would hardly ever see your snake in that case I would think. I prefer to watch the snakes a lot in order to learn more about behavior and hope that it's as natural as possible.

PS: One reason I shy away from large snakes is because they require larger cages...LOL! My moellendorffi were getting close to six ft, and could've gotten to seven ft. They were in 20 gal. tanks, which they were outgrowing and are difficult to clean.

Happy Holiday Cheers...Terry

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

Thanks for the photos and the extra info, Terry. Yep, the photo of the Mandarin is the one I was talking about. You've given me some good ideas about feeding, and keeping the snakes from getting aspen stuck all over the mice. I mostly agree with what you said about space being overrated for rat snakes, but once they get up to about 4.5 - 5 ft, I don't like to keep them in anything less than 20 gal size caging, or at least floor dimensions. The 90 qt Sterilite and 95 qt Rubbermaid tubs I use, have similar dimensions to 20 gal tanks, and are light and easy to clean. I also use 41 qt Sterilite tubs which have a similar amount of floor space, but are only about 5 or 6 inches high. I have also noticed some of my snakes will squeeze themselves into very tight spaces, between their hides and the back wall (where the heat tape warms it up), and between the top of the hides and the ceiling of the rack, in the lower (41 qt) tubs. I also use some hides that look too small for the snakes that use them, but they squeeze into them, and some seem to prefer them over larger hides, especially during digestion. BTW, what kind of container is that hide, in the second photo?

-Toby

That container is a kitty litter container that I cut some holes in on the top and stuffed with newspaper and paper towels to make the fit inside tighter. I also use smaller plastic containers for hides for smaller snakes and at times use small moist hides. They sometimes go inside the hides and sometimes underneath or alongside the hides. They seem to like the tactile feeling of being pressed in. They also like to get closer to the undertank heat at times, and some species like to bask a lot.

I agree that snakes over 4 ft., unless very thin, probably would benefit from a larger than 10 gal. tank. Almost all of my snakes are in the 3 to 4 ft. range. If I were going larger, I think I would switch to Sterilite or Rubbermaid, also, unless I found a pro cage design I liked. We'll see what happens in retirement, haha!

One reason I don't use smaller hides much is because of the two water jugs I use. They take up a bunch of room and the snakes also use them a lot for soaking. I can turn that gallon jug into a moist hide pretty easily too. Maybe I'll try some different sizes in the future to see how that works.

Later...TC

Thanks Terry. I'm always looking at plastic containers as possible water containers or hides, these days, and the cheaper, the better. haha! I like recycled containers like the gallon water jugs because they suit the purpose well, and as you said, they're fairly versatile, as well.

-Toby

so it seems that the general opinion is to put the snake into the smaller cage. my main worry was that it wouldn't have enough space to roam, but after a couple of sleepless nights watching it, i've found that it doesn't roam hardly at all. it might do a couple of laps and then it settles right back into its favorite spot. (which is now on the cool end of the cage).

>>so it seems that the general opinion is to put the snake into the smaller cage. my main worry was that it wouldn't have enough space to roam, but after a couple of sleepless nights watching it, i've found that it doesn't roam hardly at all. it might do a couple of laps and then it settles right back into its favorite spot. (which is now on the cool end of the cage).

Most ratsnakes are more interested in security than in space or anything else. That's why it's hard to learn other things, like how much moisture/humidity they need, or heat, etc. good luck...TC

so it's been moved for awhile now. i gave it a couple of tight caves and lots of plants, but now it doesn't seem to want to eat. i even tried putting it into a bag with the food to isolate it, but nothing. i'm going to assume that it is wild caught. it's first meal for me was a rat pinky. it doesn't seem to want anything to do with fuzzies at all, could the hair be a problem? any advice would be awesome. thanks

>>so it's been moved for awhile now. i gave it a couple of tight caves and lots of plants, but now it doesn't seem to want to eat. i even tried putting it into a bag with the food to isolate it, but nothing. i'm going to assume that it is wild caught. it's first meal for me was a rat pinky. it doesn't seem to want anything to do with fuzzies at all, could the hair be a problem? any advice would be awesome. thanks

Scooter, first I'd repost this question as a new post, so everyone will see it as a new strand. Second, it's hard to answer questions like this because there's usually not enough info. Where'd you get the snake; what kind of feeding info did you get, schedule, etc; did the seller say it was w/c or cbb?

Ok, was the rat pinky it ate (about two weeks ago?) live or dead? It makes a difference for a couple reasons. First, your snake might not like one or the other. Second, you don't want to hurry your snake. Moellendorffi is active in early morning usually, sometimes in early evening. You could leave a live prey item overnight and the snake could come out under darkness or come out early in the morning to get it. If I was feeding a dead mouse I would put it out for the snake early, like 6am, and let the snake decide if it wants to eat it. However, if it doesn't, you will probably have to toss that mouse.

These snakes are very security conscious and nervous. They probably won't eat on demand. If you do want to separate your snake from its cage, Id put it in a suitable plastic container with the prey item, maybe for an hour or two, if necessary. If it won't eat the dead (f/t) item, I'd switch to the live mouse in a suitable container. I'd use a small, fuzzy or less, size mouse. Put it in a container it can't get out of, but the snake can get into, such as an empty gal. jug. Let the snake find it on its own time. If the snake doesn't want to play this game, maybe its just not hungry, and you might have to consider some other possibilities, like maybe it wants to brumate for awhile, or maybe it's not happy with your setup, etc.

Good luck and Happy New Year....TC

i actually did as you suggested early this morning. i put the live mouse fuzzy into a plastic container in the cage and just left it alone. i guess part of my problem is that this snake isn't acting like any of the other asian rat snakes that i've kept before. the tawain beauty is a garbage disposal. i guess that's all just part of the learning process. i have noticed that it likes to come out more in the mornings so i am going to structure feeding around then.

>>i actually did as you suggested early this morning. i put the live mouse fuzzy into a plastic container in the cage and just left it alone. i guess part of my problem is that this snake isn't acting like any of the other asian rat snakes that i've kept before. the tawain beauty is a garbage disposal. i guess that's all just part of the learning process. i have noticed that it likes to come out more in the mornings so i am going to structure feeding around then.

Cool! I'd leave it in for another 24hrs, if it doesn't take it right away. If it still doesn't eat, I'd try it with smaller mice, like large pinkies. Good luck.

TC