Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Thanks to a friend Chris who took the pics.

Now you've me curious. I hope it can be fixed. I'd love to see that mandarin.

Regards
John

I'm a technophobe I tryed for a long time to work out how to post pics,but still can't.
I was lucky enough to ge about 30 very good quality field pics of different Taiwan snakes species, from a fellow herper. I'll have to get a friend to help me sorry.

>>I'm a technophobe I tryed for a long time to work out how to post pics,but still can't.

First, I store my photos on the web. Most of mine are here at Kingsnake.com. You can get a "free" 10 mg gallery to start with.

Next, to post a pic there's several ways. I often use html code to insert a pic where I want it in the text. Put "" after your photo's html address. With a little practice they should start showing up.

Good luck...TC

ratsnakehaven's gallery

>>First, I store my photos on the web. Most of mine are here at Kingsnake.com. You can get a "free" 10 mg gallery to start with.
>>
>>Next, to post a pic there's several ways. I often use html code to insert a pic where I want it in the text. Put "" after your photo's html address. With a little practice they should start showing up.
>>
>>Good luck...TC

I should have said, "...your photo's url address, not html."

Dinodon, photobucket.com is very user-friendly! It will automatically resize the pics to fit these forums nicely, and it's free!
Since Don graced your namesake with rufozonatum, I'll give you some semicarinatum

On Okinawa, I found one Akamata that would make that four-footer wrapped around my hand look like a baby. I'm 6'1", and I had the snake by the tail, with arm held high, and despite some kinks for rigidity, its head was barely above the ground. It was at least 7', and without doubt the longest snake I have ever found! The most regrettable part is that I had both a camera and a camcorder, and due to traffic, I got rid of the snake in a hurry. Truth be told, the traffic was only a mild concern; they're fantastically efficient biters, with attitude, decent jaws and a pair of big teeth, and I really didn't know what to do with it

Share those Taiwan herp pics!

Shane

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Lifelist

another try

Thanks for all help.

Here's the Mandarain. I almost gave up trying to post pics.

Dinodon:

Thanks very much for posting the photos of the bamboo rat and the mandarin. The picture of the mandarin is extremely similar to a taiwanese mandarin that Schulz has in his ratsnake book. Very nice looking snakes in my opinion.

Thanks again for the photos. And please post any stuff you find. I'm sure folks here will enjoy it.

Best regards
John

>>Here's the Mandarain. I almost gave up trying to post pics.
>>

Thanks very much. Those are nice pics. I look forward to anything you post, including pics of the albino bimac and any other photos from Taiwan, including habitat. I bet it's a great place for a herping adventure.

Terry

dinodon, Thanks, great pics. I have already decided on adding some mandarins to my collection but i think now i need to find a source for the bamboos. Does anyone know if they are exporting wc's and if so how hard are they to acclimate? Are they as tough as the mandarins?

Thanks, Don

Terry there are a few more rat snake I'll see if another friend will let me use his pics, he;s got hundres of nice pics. I'v learned alot about the snakes here and take notes, I'm very keen on writing a book. I'v know a Few local herpers that are willing to help gather the info, and what ever pics I might need.

Don I know there are some guys exporting them from Hong Kong. The Read bamboo rats are easyer to keep than Mandarains. They seem a little less shy and can handel higher temps.

>>Terry there are a few more rat snake I'll see if another friend will let me use his pics, he;s got hundres of nice pics. I'v learned alot about the snakes here and take notes, I'm very keen on writing a book. I'v know a Few local herpers that are willing to help gather the info, and what ever pics I might need.
>>
>>Don I know there are some guys exporting them from Hong Kong. The Read bamboo rats are easyer to keep than Mandarains. They seem a little less shy and can handel higher temps.

Dino...I look forward to any new pics. I'd love to have the access you have for a year, or so. If you're going to work on a book, keep me in mind. I'll be free by next summer and might be looking for a new project. I could probably give some technical support.

BTW, I was going to suggest the Hong Kong exporters also. Some probably see some porphyracea and mandarina. I've kept both w/o any problems, but would suggest keeping them at room temps, maybe with a little undercage heat for digestion...

Later....TC

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

Terry I would love some help writing a book, I have all the human resources to get accurate info. I also have pics avalible of every snake species Known to exist on the island, with only a few color morphs absent. Most of the leg work is done. I might even be able to get those missing color moph pics by asking around.
Any way see how things go, if you have the time next summer and you would like to join the venture you will be welcome.

>>Terry I would love some help writing a book, I have all the human resources to get accurate info. I also have pics avalible of every snake species Known to exist on the island, with only a few color morphs absent. Most of the leg work is done. I might even be able to get those missing color moph pics by asking around.
>>Any way see how things go, if you have the time next summer and you would like to join the venture you will be welcome.

Let's stay in touch via e-mail. I'll be happy to help, if I can. Do you have many habitat pics, yet? Thanks...

Terry

Hi Terry here are some pics, The country side is almost totaly jungle.

>>Hi Terry here are some pics, The country side is almost totaly jungle.
>>

Fantastic pics. There has been so little come out of Taiwan and it's such an interesting country.

Islands are often mysterious because of what they don't have, as well as what they do have. For instance, Schulz lists Taiwan as having four ratsnake species, including E. carinata, E. mandarina, E. porphyracea, and E. taeniura, whereas China proper has fifteen. It makes me wonder why some of the other ratsnake species aren't there? It likely has something to do with the climate and topography.

The Tropic of Cancer divides Taiwan into northern and southern halves, I believe, making the southern half of the island tropical. But we also have to remember that it is extremely mountainous, and the higher elevations probably experience cooler climatic conditions. So, I would imagine that there is a tremendous variety of tropical, subtropical, and probably even temperate vegetation present on the island. A study in habitats could be very interesting. Did you get your pictures on the north end or southern end of the island?

It does seem, from what little I've seen of the island, that it is mostly montane. I wonder if there are any "plains" anywhere? I would try to find some open areas to look for herps, if I were there. Aquatic habitats are often fairly open and could harbor a good number of species.

Good luck in your quests. Feel free to share any more photos you get, of herps or habitats. Thanks for the discussion....

TC

Beautiful looking habitat; it reminds me a lot of the northern parts of Okinawa. I never had much luck roadcruising the snakes in pristine forests, but the edge habitats were quite productive. That steep terrain makes field herping the mountains quite difficult, and purely dangerous in some cases.
Great idea on a book. Actually, I was going to suggest to you (and Don for Korea) that perhaps a good start would be a simple website on the snakes of Taiwan.
You could get a free webspace, I use yahoo geocities, but there are plenty of others. With even a free account, you could probably put up a pic or two, at say 640 x 480, for all snake species native to Taiwan, and add all the text you want for each species account.
I don't know if you've tried to make a free webpage or not, but after a couple of hours, you'll get the hang of it. If you have the pics and general info at hand, it wouldn't take you long to pump out a very decent account on the snakes of Taiwan. If you titled it "The Snakes of Taiwan," it would pop up at the top of the list for the same search on google.
When I'm in a position to do so, I want to make a basic natural history website (English version) on the herps of Japan. There's some good literature about, but internet-wise, I'd like to put more information out there for the general, English speaking public.

Shane
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Lifelist

Hi shane I'm not very good with the computer, making a web page would be very difficult I would have to recrute some help.

I was doing some '' reserch'' on the Trimerersurus okiavensis to find out how closely related it was to the Taiwan Trim mucrosguamatus. This was a while back I'n not sure where I read it but according to the article the TW Trim has started invading Okinawa. Do you know anything about this ?

>>I have already decided on adding some mandarins to my collection but i think now i need to find a source for the bamboos. Does anyone know if they are exporting wc's and if so how hard are they to acclimate? Are they as tough as the mandarins?
>>
>>Thanks, Don

Don, Mandarins are fairly easy captives under the right conditions, including being captive born. The w/c ones can be a real pain getting started, depending on how many parts are missing, or what kind of intestinal load they have, etc. I would imagine porphys are difficult too, if w/c, but I've not dealt with w/c ones. I'd be glad to help answer questions, if I can.

TC

Thanks for posting those pics! Taiwan must be a very interesting place. Is there a lot of endimism there? On another mimicry note, those porphyracea can look a lot like some Sinomicrurus sp., but I have to wonder how much of it is mimicry, vice a more practical illusionary pattern ( I can't remember that term)........probably some of both, with warning colors being real for Sinomicrurus, and the striped/banded pattern being practical for quick fleeing serpents, as both are.
Here's Sinomicrurus japonicus boettgeri, from Okinawa:

Shane
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Lifelist

just fooled me into thinking you had posted a rhinocheilus. Now granted I'm color blind but the colors and pattern fooled me for a minute. Different head though I think.

Regards
John

John, the pattern and coloration are similar on both species, but with the exception of photo illusion (it never fails on an ID quiz that the resounding answer is Rhinocheilus), they're quite different snakes in all other respects. If you were presented with a bucketful of both species, you could easily seperate them, color-blind or not. The easiest way would be to stick you hand in the bucket, and remove all biters, until none of the serpents were biting......then you'd be left with a bucketful of nothing but longnose snakes.....or perhaps you could just wait a day, and the longnoses would all become Dinodon semicarinatum snacks
Joking aside, they are quite different morphologically, but impressive, defensive snakes nonetheless; even as mere hatchlings they aren't pleasant.......there's no way I'd let a subadult get ahold of me......and watersnakes don't bother me a bit!

Shane
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Lifelist

Well even if it is a reptilian pirhana it's still very cool-looking. It seems like mimics pop up all over the place. Well back to the pie and cookies. These holidays are murder.

Regards
John

I love this mimic Psammodynastes pulverulentus Mock viper, we also have a false viper Macropisthodon rudis that looks a little like the Russles viper.

Cute little fellow. Is the mock viper a harmless snake or a rear-fang?

It's rear fanged, A friend of mine got bitten, and it seem to pack quite a punch, localized swelling that lasted for the day, he said it wasn't very pain full.

Shane, I would like to have seen that big guy.

One of my brothers sent me pics of Dinodon sps, along with some pit vipers, when he was stationed in Okinawa. I've always been curious as to what they were like. Seems like they are a little like kingsnakes. Do they constrict?

Later...TC

Nice to see so much interest.
Shane that Semicarinatum looks nice I had no ided they got so big.
Terry TWN is very good for herping, I'v got alot of pics in my desk top computer, but my screen is broken I'm using my wifes laptop now.
Heres a pic of a Ptyas mucosus.

Here is a E carinata, the adult TWN specimins are generaly less bright than the Chinese but I have seen some that are stunnig.

>>Here is a E carinata, the adult TWN specimins are generaly less bright than the Chinese but I have seen some that are stunnig.
>>

Those are nice specimens and photos. The herp fauna of Taiwan are very interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a book on the herps of Taiwan, so it's a little difficult to imagine everything in order to compare to the North American herps, but we do get little bits and pieces now and then. The ratsnakes of Taiwan are plentiful and pretty amazing, and at the same time quite a bit different from those of N. A. Of course, the climate and topography are different too. Love seeing those habitat shots, if you get the chance. Maybe you could write a book in your free time, also, hahahah!

Happy Holidays...Terry

TC, Dinodon semicarinatum strikes me as more of an arboreal snake, in regard to their general build and behavior, but they are Lampropeltis-like in more than one way. For one, they are apparently immune to Habu (Trimeresurus flavoviridis) venom, and they will eat them, along with just about anything else that they can consume, and two, while not considered constrictors, I think that as a species, semicarinatum "could" kill rodents with constriction.......at the very least it must be a great tool for prey control. I'm not sure what species of rodents are naturally sympatric, but if any are "rat" sized, then it would be interesting to know if they willingly attack proportionately large rodents????
The pic again:

The pic is overexposed, but you can see the puffiness of my hand between the loops.....in hand, it's obvious that they are just as powerful/muscular as any constrictor of the same mass.

Shane
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Lifelist

Shane, looks like a pretty good constrictor to me. Maybe they just don't eat rodents much.

It's interesting that you compared them to kingsnakes. I always find myself comparing Mandarins to kingsnakes.

I've also wondered for a long time what subfamily they would fit into. Obviously, folks have not considered them to be ratsnakes, probably not even Colubrinae. I don't think they are Natricine. Maybe they are Boigine or that African subfamily, related to wolf snakes. Anyway, interesting snakes, and pretty successful as far as I can tell.

Thanks for the post and comments.

Terry