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there is a section in this months(i think its this months) reptiles magazine about mangrove snakes Boiga Dendrophila, it seemed pretty imformative and had some info on breeding as well, truly awesome looking snakes. I would love to get one but i have two problems, 1-doesent seem too many people have CB babies and 2-my wife would murder me if i even spoke of the word venomous and snake in the same sentence in our house.

That being said im very intrested in fwc and might try to buy one in the future if i could get it passed my wife.

I would go with the Mangrove rather than the FWC. FWC's have a worse bite than the Mangrove and are a lot more unpredictable than Mangroves.

Cheers

MArk

I would have to completely disagree here! I like mangroves more but I've kept and worked with a few false water cobra's. I have not experienced this crazy feeding that many talk about. I've even fed them by hand. The false water cobra's in my experience are just another calm colubrid that may fuss a bit but I've never had one even try to bite. Mangroves are a different story and will go opened mouthed with only a few seconds of messing with them. You don't often hear of calm mangroves, false water cobra's you here about all the time! Look into both, but a FWC makes a much better "pet"! I know of only 1 photo with a woman holding a solid black mangroves (sulawesi). You'll find tons of photo's of people holding FWC's. In the ks.com classifieds right now under other snakes you'll find someone selling 1.2 adults and there is a pick of one of the biguns around his neck. Good luck in your search.
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John Light
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it has the venom close to a rattlesnake and they produce about 1/3 the amount of venom it takes to kill here is a link to a realy sever bite http://www.mib.ch/toxi/lit/p38738.html a person and they can have a tremendous fedding response and be unpredictable on the other hand they can tame down and make good captives if your carefull and dont let your gaurd down and treat the snake likes its a copperhead or cottonmout it deservers that kind of respect!! and a mangrove may actualy be better because they have less of a feeding response and more predictable and there agressive so you probaaly wont find it easy to let your gaurd down and i actualy havent kept etheir speces but have done many many many many months of reaserch and im about to aquare one or the other

not trying to scare you or anything just trying to inform you because like 4 months ago before i new lots about mangrove snakes a almost bought one not noing that if your alergic there potentaly dangerous so im not saying dont get it i just want you to no that not not a harmless snake

ok lets stop a minute and think here. Ants kill people! ANY alergic reaction CAN kill someone. Doesn't matter if your working with fwc's, or mangroves. They all deserve respect. Treating a fwc like a copperhead is kinda funny to me though. You just need to know what your doing. Anyone can and sooner or later will screw up. The point is to never get lax but that's easier said then done. I've kept fwc's and they make wonderful pets. Sure if you let the darn thing chew on your arm the bite isn't going to be pretty, the point is NOT to let them do that! Florida see's mangroves as venomous. Florida does NOT see fwc's as venomous. I think they have good reason for this. As said before people free handle fwc's all the time, one SHOULD think twice about doing so with a mangrove. Mangroves seem to be more hands off, again you want a pet go with a fwc!
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John Light
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after reading that article I started to think. You can develope an allergic reaction. This is one reason you must becareful with spitting cobra's. If the venom gets onto your skin over a period of time you could become allergic. The boy says he had been bitten several times before. Leaving the snake on his wrist for 1.5min was not exactly the smartest thing. I believe if you leave any rear fanged snake biting you for a period of a time most will have some kind of reaction. The point is to not let that happen. I have not found fwc's to be the least bit unpredictable. Mangroves on the other hand will go open mouthed and you can tell when they are going to bite. I'll say it 20 times over, a False Water Cobra is a much better pet hands down!
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John Light
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I didn't intend to stir things up. Interesting thread though.

I didn't mention attitude at all in my post, I was talking purely in terms of the venomous nature of the bite. As the original poster stated the concerns of his wife re "venomous". All of the literature and bite reports I have read, clearly show the FWC bite to cause far worse envenomations than the Mangrove.

Let me qualify my post further. Mangroves are, as has been stated, generally aggressive animals, you know where you are. This means you will treat them with respect all of the time.

FWC's in my experience are unpredictable. I have a male that is a psycho, can't go near him. The female on the other hand is very placid and handleable(at times) BUT she does have a very good feeding response (at times) and is then very fast and extremely unpredictable.

Neither species are going to be life threatening and both are good captives. Having the information to make an informed choice is the important thing.

Cheers

Mark

I meant to add that Mangroves tend to bite and release, whereas FWC's tend to chew. This increases the chances of being envenomated by the latter.

Cheers

Mark

you make some good points mark

This has been a very good thread. Both animals can inflict a pretty serious bite. Personally I like mangroves more and will get into them in the future but as far as pets/handling and such goes I'd lean towards the fwc. Anyways both are amazing snakes and I'm sure a joy to keep. Good luck in your decision!
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John Light
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ya but if you do choose to free handle false water cobras which i dont advise use gloves!! because when a seriouse bit happens the laws are going to get strickter and its going to be harder for us to own these beautiful animals

Wow, lots of talk here thanks for all the replies, my wife said she doesent mind me getting the snake(after alot of begging) that being said i was only getting the snake for display purpose im not intrested in handling either of the two (besides for cleaning and such) im planning on making a custom cage so that might take some time. not sure on mangrove or fwc yet, the mangroves are just so pretty makes my choice so hard thanks again for the replies.

COOL !!!!! ID GET A MANGROVE BUT THATS JUST ME I JUST LOVE THE YELLOW AND BLACK EATHER WAY THERE BOTH AWSOME SNAKES!!!!!!

I free handle the fwc's all the time and have yet to have a problem. Mangroves I don't typically free handle as they tend to be snappy. This is my experience. With that said if your mainly going to be looking at it and not holding it go with what you like more. Personally I think a mangrove would make 10X better as a showcase animal! When I find some more yellow fwc's I'll be purchasing some new snakes! I sold the last pair I had which I regret but I've begun the look for more. My problems is that the male of the pair mine came from died. The adult proven female is in the classifieds. She's actually a sweet heart and I've free handled her plenty. Anyways...now to continue my search.
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John Light
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My only warning of Mangroves would be, like you stated earlier, there are not a lot of CB ones. And everyone I speak to about them says the same thing that WC almost always have severe parasitic infestations. Including the one I stumbled upon and bought. Other than that he was a fantastic snake! He ate wonderfully. And was always up for being handled. I also have a friend with a FWC and that is one of the sweetest colubrids I have come in contact with! But everything with animals is subjective, of course. Happy hunting for your next herp!

I have found that my false water cobras are completely doscile. Yea, when your feeding them its not a good idea to get your hands out there. Mine have not been bad, in fact they are very calm. I have an established feeding area which is inside the tank. I get them out with a hook and they are completely calm when out of the tank, they would tag most things in the tank though. There is a lot of good research in the bite toc on the venomdoc forum. There is always the possibility of getting an individual that is defensive but with a little work they almost always come around. Definately treat either species with respect but I think hydrodynastes seem to be more predictible than mangroves. They usually tell you they are upset by hooding then a nice tail whip or dose bump. I have only had mine hood and tail whip while in the tank. The tank is 120 with self hade hinging lock lids and 2 120 basking lights. They also love h20 so have a good size tub to soak and swim in. They love it! I would say that my male is 7'6" and the female is 6'5"

Sorry, almost forgot. Lemon juce will remove a biting Hydrodynastes and not harm them. They do have very sharp grooved teath in the back of the mouth but the only time the would chew like that is if they thought you were food afterall the venom was not made for offensive purposes and they have other defenses. Be really carefull during feeding because they do tend to go into a frenzy and I believe thats when most people get tagged by this snake. Mine will go nuts and tend to race to whatever is moving or smells of lunch so use tongs and dont move fast

I have had dendrophilia and they get long and stay very alert - when I say alert I mean mean and more than willing to bite. Be careful if you have children in the house, since the boiga species is responsible for more bites in Guam households than any other species...I got mine from a breeder in CA - up north...

yea most mangroves are nasty but since they are rear fanged it is hard to get bit and dont do fwc's too nippy if u find where to get a mangrove give me a shout havent had one in years

I met Bill Gillingham ( Great Valley Serpentarium) at the Anaheim show to thank him for the nice mang hatching he sent me in July. He indicated that he had another clutch incubating as I recall....