Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello

Got a question for anyone who has worked with this animal. I have just obtained 3 specimens, a male and two females. Both females are gravid. I am getting some conflicting information so I hope someone with experience can clear it up.

According to a friend of mine, this species likes lower temps. 73-77 F with the eggs being kept at 73 F constantly.

But according to Jobi on this site, the Gonocephalus chameleontinus he kept and bred need a temperature change from daytime 85-90 F and nighttime 75 F, with the same daily variation for the eggs.

Right now they are being kept at about 80-85 F, and I have noticed two of them descend to the ground away from the lamp, perhaps because they prefer the lower temps.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. It would be a shame to lose the eggs just because I used the wrong temps.

Thanks for any help,

Michael

PS if you wish to email privately you reach me at chalcosoma@juno.com

It would be really nice to see some pictures! Thanks!

actualy iv bred many generation of severald gonocephalus ssp at similar temps as water dragons (de Vojoly)

and all have grown fast and multi-clutched, keeping them on the lower range of temps is absolutly cruel, as all of them have acces to much higher temps then documented, and this most of the year.

they key is to offer choices and let them use what they need.

doria hatches in 45 days at 75f ntl- 86f dth

they hatche out strong and grow from egg to egg in les then one year.

Hi Jobi,

Are those baby G. Doriae in the pics? You've bred them?

It's interesting, my friend's suggestion for eggs was 73F for 3-4 months. A zoo account had the eggs at 85F for about 2 months.

Is the daytime-nighttime change important for their health and development? Is there higher mortality or weaker babies from using a constant temperature?

Also, the females are ready to lay, and one has laid one egg. That was 5 days ago. If you have any hints for inducing egglaying I'd appreciate it, I'm getting a bit worried.

Any advice on set-up would be very helpful too. I am planning to build a new enclosure for them with running waterfall, mist/fog system, etc. Do they need a lot of ventilation? It would be great to see any pic of your set-ups or just describe how you set them up.

More - UV important? And food, besides crickets and superworms?

Thanks for your help I really want them to survive and grow up like yours did, to the next generation!

Michael

hello again!
sorry for late reply, unfurtunatly I dont have acces to this pc often, also I cant uplaod any new photos.

no the photo I posted was acanthosaura ssp, hers one doria? not sure.

in any case all these lizards do exelent given similar care, pleas read my older posts about husbandry.

I tryed many temperature ranges, and they did best in this range NTL 75f DTH 85f.
yes the fluctuation is vital for proper embryo development, this is the secret to a strong and vigurous hatcheling.

I do not care about all the nonesens zoos or specialist says, should Iv listened to them id not have bred and hatched so many species. read my posts they all have somthing of interest.
Rgds

Thanks Jobi

I will look up your older posts.

I just wanted top know that you have kept THIS species, G. doriae. A friend of mine has observed them in the wild in Malaysia but not kept them. He saw them along the river in the mountains, and that's why he thought they needed cooler temperatures - because where they lived was actually quite cool.

So far mine move away from areas of 85 and come down to the ground where it's cooler. Is is possible they have diffeent requirements than other species?

For now I will continue to offer a range 80-85 in different parts of the living space, and 75 at night.

yes I understand what you are saying about cool temps, but keepers need to realise that 60f in the wild is not the same as in a cage.
first you must understand about lizard scales and how they fonction, in the case of gonos and acanthosauras they are desingned to expuls water from the bady ( a dry body keeps heat) second these lizards can change the refletivness of there scales, this alows them to absorb radiant heat that our human skin cant even notice, once heated up they have the ability to reflect radient heat away from the body.

Have you ever seen such glowing acanthosauras?
probably not, because keepers dont offer them enough options to heat up as captives, all my lizards have 130f baskings witch they use at one point or an other, dont matter what specie acantho, hipsylurus or gonocephalus they all need choices.

75f to 85f is my incubation choice not my husbandry, in my cages they have access to a range from 65f to 130f, and yes they use it.
I prefer smaller cages that I keep bare naked, this way I have control on both temps and food. I seperate only if needed, witch is rare when feeding every day.

in closing; I live in northern Quebec, my car is at present under 3 feet of snow, yet last summer I recorded greys tree frog basking at 137f, can you really imagine any tropical reptile not having acess to such temps ever?
I surly dont fall for this nonsens, and my animals thank me for it.
Rgds

Jobi

Great pics by the way!

I have changed my temporary set-up radically. Took out the peat, added tropical dipterocarp leaves as substrate, put in a big water dish with a pump.

I also discontinued the Flagyl treatment.

The female is looking much perkier and more alert now. I also tried offering food earlier in the morning. Neither ate but both showed interest in crickets offered at ground level.

Offering a temp range like you do is a challenge as I live in Thailand. Maybe I can rig up some cooling system with ice in it, literally.

I sent you some messages regarding humidity cycles and so on, and it would be good to get a comprehensive explanation of your set-ups for Gonocephalus also. You ought to make a Tree Dragon Guide out of your collected posts and observations, illustrated with your photos.

BTW I'm Canadian also, and my friend here who breeds many species of chameleon is also French Canadian.

Thanks for your help.

if I was living in the tropics, id modify my cages so they have plenty ventilation at night and place the cages where thers a slow breez, these lizards use the wind-moisture to lower ther metabolism. my cages are adapted to my climate and may not work for you?

dont worry about humidity, 40% to 80% is an exelent range, stress is much more of an enemy to these lizards then humidity is. acanthosaurus are prety dumb and soon forget the handling if you feed them afterwards, however all gonos and hipsylurus should not be handled nor should they be housed in groups or anywhere they can see eatch other, they are display lizards that will signal each other across the room, in such cases domination is anavoidable and lower ranking lizards will perish as if housed together.

use a feeding bowl until your lizards feeds in your presence.

sorry I cant recieve any PM but I will soon have an email of my own.
rgds

Thanks Jobi

I have a major problem, it's kind of a "cycle" that I don't know how to break:

Neither are eating now. as such, I have no choice but to handle them, gently get their mouths open, and pop some food in. This stresses them out and makes them less likely to eat....and so on!

I will try keeping them out of each other's sight, maybe that will help.

Any other suggestions? How can I stop this cycle?

It never ceases to amaze me that people feel they know when an animal should or should not eat. If that is not enough, then why not force feed the animal. Amazing.

Did you ever take into consideration that their may be a variety of reasons including what may be an internal clock that automatically goes on where the lizard cools itself down during certain times of the year. This is certainly common in geckos. Husbandry could also play a role as well as what you intimated by them not being able to see each other. Lizards have an hierarchy that they live by and it is not determined by what YOU feel should be their eating habits. Keep them separate, keep them from seeing each other, dont over indulge with the food. If they dont eat, take the food out , wait a day and try again. You will have plenty to worry about if they begin loosing weight and become lethargic. Make sure they are hydrated, and keep the area clean. They have enough to deal with , without you attempting to stress their little lives by force feading.

Essentially I egree. However, he was quite thin and very weak when I got him and it seemed a better option than starvation. And technically, it's not "force-feeding" which would be pushing it down the gullet - it's just placing it in the mouth so they have the option to spit it out. The stress factor is too much though and I have stopped doing this.

His appetite has returned a bit and he went after some crickets after I discontinued the Flagyl.

I'm setting something else up for the female now, to give her some seclusion and hopefully lay the rest of the eggs.