Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I had an interesting experience yesterday! I went to my local pet store to get food for my parrots, and as I was outside looking at their fish pond, I see what I thought was a little chameleon statue...until she moved! I picked her up and took her into the pet store, thinking she had escaped from them, but nope, they say "Not ours." Obviously someone deliberately abandoned her, as the odds of her wandering off and ending up outside a pet store are ridiculous. The pet store nicely gave me a canvas bag to get her home safely, and sold me some crickets for her, and now it seems I am the proud owner of a veiled chameleon.

I am an experienced herp owner, had a pair of green iguanas for nearly 17 years, and currently own a ball python, a gold dust day gecko and three red eye tree frogs. This is my first chameleon, however, and I want to do right by her. I had a very large ferret cage on hand, and encased it with screen I bought from Lowe's. Searching my storage unit, I found I had plenty of light fixtures, and I have ordered a Reptisun 5.0 for the fluorescent fixture and an infrared heat bulb for the incandescent fixture. I put a live plant in the bottom of the cage, and lots of silk greenery and branches for her to climb on. I put her crickets in a clear plastic cup they can't climb out of and affixed the cup to the branches with a twist-tie. My cricket gut-load is at my office (where all my other herps live) but I will bring some home tomorrow, and they are eating grated carrots for now until she finishes eating them. I have a dripper water system hooked up as well.

She is very sweet, definitely a female (no spurs on the back feet), and seems to already be getting comfortable. So far, my questions are: I hear females will lay eggs regularly, so do I need anything special (sand, dirt?) in the cage for her to lay her eggs in? I'm assuming she needs calcium supplementation, should it be with D3 or without? I'm attaching a pic of her, is she full grown or will she get larger? I'm also attaching pics of her cage, and as you can see, it's plenty big enough (the white arrow in the one pic pointing to that tiny green lump is actually pointing to her in her huge cage), but you can also see I had to rig a weird opening in the screen for the door, which is mainly silver strapping tape and velcro. Any ideas on how to make this look better? Is there anything else I should do for her that I am not doing? Normally I religiously research care before getting any new pet, but obviously wasn't able to here. Happily I had a lot of stuff on hand from previous herps.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. I've named her Joyce.

Wendy

Hello. Joyce is lucky you found her and have enough care and experience to keep her!
I keep Panther chams rather than vields, but I'll try to answer your questions.

No, She does not appear full grown.

As the cage is fairly large, you may want to hang the cup with the feeder insects just below and close to whatever perch she most prefers, for now, to ensure she finds the food. An opaque feeding cup may be better than a clear one, as she may try to shoot her tongue through the sides of a clear cup.

If her only UVB will be from bulbs, yes include Vit D with the Calcium ( phos.-free calcium/D3 powder), but not at every feed. Maybe weekly or every two weeks with the Vit D, and once daily for the Calcium.

A wide selection of gut-loaded insects is also important to ensure good health. Silkworms, butterworms, roaches, crickets that are gut loaded, hornworms, some moths, wood sows, phasmids, gut loaded meal worms, kingworms, etc. Feed the crickets an assortment of greens like dandelion, kale, collards, curly endive, escarole, Romain, mustard greens, and veggies like carrots, squash, sweet potatoes, and a little fruit, such as applie, pear.

In addition to the calcium and a range of gutloaded insects, you might want to use a vitamin dust maybe twice a month, lightly. Choose a vit powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Since veileds are omnivores once they are about 5 or six months, so you can supply veggies; the same as listed above for the crickets should work, along with hibiscus flowers.

Make sure the plant you provided is non-toxic, and wash it thouroughly to ensure no fertalizers or pestacides are on it. Same for the dirt (or cover it with rocks larger than she could possibly eat).

As for egg laying, some people move their cham out to a bin with the damp sand (or whatever medium). But I prefer to keep a laying container (two by two by two feet) in my females cages all the time. Less stress. I put a lid on the laying container when it's definately not going to be in use, so that it doesnt get contaminated with poop.

Other critical things to watch for are humidity, temperature gradiant, etc.

Some websites:
http://www.adcham.com
http://chamownersweb.net/husbandry/faq.htmwww.chameleonnews.com
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/index.htm
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Sandra
BC Canada

Thanks! I did use the cup method for the crickets, all I had was a 24 oz clear one, but I maneuvered it right under where she was sitting on a branch, and she just leaned her head over the rim and aimed. I LOVE this method, no little chirping escapees wandering around my house! And I can always tell what she ate.

For my office critters (RETFs and a gecko), I have always used the premium blend advanced gutload from Cricketfood.com in addition to whatever fresh fruit and veggies I give the crickets. I'm bring half the bag home today so I can use for Joyce's crickets as well, along with the calcium fortified Cricket Quencher gel from Flukers. I've got phos-free calcium with D3 on hand, and it looks like the stuff without D3 is in the cricket gutload and the quencher, so would I'm assuming I won't need the calcium powder without D3 in addition???

I'll pick up a box and some sand after work today. Can I just get the sand at the pet store? Any particular kind? I've got some good size "pond rocks" that I used to cover the dirt under my big ficus tree so the cats would stop digging in it, so I'll use those over the dirt on Joyce's plant too.

Thanks for your help!!

Hi
Sand from the petstore is likely to be expensive. I just use playground sand, from a local home improvement store. I divide it into small buckets and poor a couple kettles of boiling water over each bucket. Just to make sure there's nothing living in the sand. Poor off the water, wait for a bit more to evaporate - in the same room as my chameleons, so that the humidty doesnt go to waste! - then the sand is ready to be combined dumped into my laying bins. I dumpout the old sand onto my garden about once a year and buy new stuff, because I am too lazy to wash and steralize the used sand. Some folk will bake the sand on cookie sheets in an oven.

I can understand not wanting crickets to escape into your home! And cup feeding helps you track how much she eats, and you can put some cricket food in the cup to keep them nutritious.
However, to help Joyce keep her hunting skills / instinct, you may want to let her catch the odd cricket or worm more naturally, not from in a cup. If you wait until she's hungry, then release a cricket on a nearby branch, she'll probably go for it while you watch, if you keep still and quiet. If you remove the hind jumping legs from the crickets, they are more likely to stay clinging to the branches long enough to get eaten, rather than jumping away. Silkworms are great as their little suction-cup feet allow them to walk around on branches without falling, plus they are silent and present no infestation hazards. Roaches on the other hand you need to be careful of. Even though I only offer very young roaches no where near breeding age to my chams, I still remove the heads if I'm not going to be there to ENSURE the roaches are eaten. The roaches will still move about without heads for a fair while - quite long enough to become dinner - but no chance for an infestation as they of course do die within days should they escape detection. Stick bugs also grip onto most any surface and walk around waiting to be injested. Wood sows are fairly good for this too.

You could put some of the veggies and fruit in the feeding cup, for Joyce to eat too if she can reach it. Otherwise, you can get simple clips from the petsore - they are meant for bird cages, to hold cuttle bones. I use them to hold fruit and veg for my bird, and it would probably work for your girl. Much easier than tying fruit to a branch, eh?

As for the calcium, I'd go with kinyongas advice and go more calcium than what I suggested, as vields do need to build up that boney head more than panthers. Especially if she does begin egg laying.

I make my own drippers using plastic cups, and aquarium air hose and valves. I use a nail to make the hole and non-toxic silicon to ensure the hose and valve stay in and seal the holes. twice daily, once in the morning and once in afternoon, I fill the water containers and they drip away for about an hour, filing collection buckets the chams can't fall into. Also use towels (changed daily) to catch splash. I mist once to three times a day, depending on the humidity in the room. As my "kids" have their own room, it's easier for me to control the humidity overall in there. I think fountains and waterfalls are a bad idea.

Enjoy her

S

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Sandra
BC Canada

Depending on where you live there are lots of tropical roach species that won't establish in your house because their temp needs just aren't met. Another way to give her some hunting "exercise" is to offer her flying insects such as dull colored night flying moths (only if you live away from agricultural pesticides) and houseflies you can culture yourself. Many chams love hunting and shooting flies and it can spark appetite in a cham that is on a hunger strike.

You said..."I hear females will lay eggs regularly, so do I need anything special (sand, dirt?) in the cage for her to lay her eggs in?"...the egglaying/cycling is affected to some extent by the amount of food being fed to the female and the temperatures.
I put a container, that when empty, the female will fit into with a couple of inches to spare on all sides including above and below her. I fill it about 2/3rds full of washed playsand that is moistened enough that it holds a tunnel but isn't muddy.

You said..."I'm assuming she needs calcium supplementation, should it be with D3 or without?"...for veileds I use a phosphorous-free calcium powder on the insects at most feedings. I also use a phops.-free calcium/D3 powder twice a month lightly dusted on the insects.

I use a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene source of vitamin A. There is controversy as to whether all chameleons can convert beta carotene...so some people give a little preformed once in a while. Preformed vitamin A can build up in the system and the excess can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD...so don't overdo it.

You said..."I'm attaching a pic of her, is she full grown or will she get larger?"...she is not quite full grown.

I'm assuming that you know about appropriate temperatures and the part they play in digestion? Gutoading? Watering?

Thanks, which vitamin powder is it you use? Are you gutloading or dusting the crickets with it?

Yes, think I'm good on heat and gutloading, but am just using a drip system I rigged myself and hand misting once or twice a day. I hear mixed reviews on The Little Dripper system that you can get at the pet stores. Any advice on the best drip system?

Thanks,
Wendy

You said..."which vitamin powder is it you use? Are you gutloading or dusting the crickets with it?"...I dust the insects with Herptivite. I gutload the crickets with an assortment of greens (dandelion, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, zucchini, sweet potatoes, squash, sweet red pepper, etc.).

You said you are "using a drip system I rigged myself and hand misting once or twice a day. I hear mixed reviews on The Little Dripper system that you can get at the pet stores. Any advice on the best drip system?"...I usually use a container with a tiny hole punched in the bottom.

Wow, she's a lucky girl!

Most female veileds do lay occasional infertile clutches but sometimes they never start. Once she stops growing noticeably you should probably cut back on the calcium to once a week and the vitamins once a month to six weeks. If she does start producing infertile eggs the calcium can be increased. Rely more on the insect gutload than the dusts ideally.

In case you hadn't seen it, there are some really good articles on veiled chameleons on the www.chameleonnews.com site. Look through their past issues and I think you'll find most of your questions answered. Good luck with her!

Geat site, thanks! I'm still playing catch-up, trying to learn about her as fast as I can. The only thing I'm unsure of is how to offer her non-insect food. Somebody on chameleonforums.com said to just clip leaves of whatever green stuff I am offering to her branches, which I can easily do. But I saw on one of the sites that I should occasionally offer her fruit as well, and I'm not sure how to present that. Do I put it in a dish, or try to attach it to a branch? If I offer it in a dish, do I put the dish up high on one of the branches, and how finely do I chop up the fruit?

Thanks for your help!

I haven't had a veiled who ate veggie or fruit foods, but at that time no one realized they would take it. My one cbb veiled prefered to munch on a couple of favorite houseplants instead. Some people put chunks of fruit on trimmed twigs in the cage kind of a kabob. A cham can safely eat a chunk no wider than its head at the jawline (same guideline for insect sizes too). Fresh greens can be held in a twist tie on the cage screen by a perch. Not all veileds eat it and they tend to do it more as adults than juveniles. If she doesn't try any veggies you can still give her that nutrition by gutloading her insects with fresh greens and fruits anyway.