Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone have a pic of one. I haven't had luck finding a pic.
Also how common of a cross is this.

Thanks!!
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Pat Higdon
Oklahoma City Herpetological Society Member
4 dumerils boas, 2 albino burmese pythons, 1 ij & 1 jungle carpet python, 10 bearded dragons, 15 leopard geckos, 2 tokay geckos & 2 sulcata tortoise

Hey Pat the best place to look would be a site specifically for bloods..And if you look for boots and/or bbq there you might find them..LOL
As far as common, all tooo common..
Tim.
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www.serpentim.com

Dang you Tim!! LOL!!

I was gettin' curious about what they looked like. I did a google search and came up with a crappy cell phone pick that was blurry.

I guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow and see them in person. Unless you got pics on your website.

Anyway, seeya tomorrow!!
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Pat Higdon
Oklahoma City Herpetological Society Member
4 dumerils boas, 2 albino burmese pythons, 1 ij & 1 jungle carpet python, 10 bearded dragons, 15 leopard geckos, 2 tokay geckos & 2 sulcata tortoise

They look like hybrid mutts.

Just my opinion.

With all the amazing examples of pure animals out there...why create animals that muddy the water?

I totally agree. These hybrids do not look as nice as either of the parent stock. However, the larger problem is as you alluded to. It is a major issue in my book to risk putting these hybrids out into the market and potentially ruining someone's breeding program of pure animals. In some cases they are difficult to identify unless you really know what to look for, especially if the hybrids have been back bred into either pure stock. Not a good idea with any species, and we should all be responsible and avoid this practice. Just my opinion on it.

Kelly

Nice to be backed up by such an OLD pro....lol.
Did I emphasize the OLD part enough????
Always great to see you on the forums Kelly!
Take care.

Your friend,
Harlin

I agree as well. I do have pics of a hybrid given to me (long, sad story) and took a bunch of photos for reference, but have yet to post them. Sends chills down my spine even having them and I am generally reluctant to even post them being an anal purest.

For those reading, keep in mind that P. curtus and P. breitensteini are closely related, whereas P. brongersmai is more distantly related to the two. However all three descend from the same animal going back long ago. (trying real hard to avoid the technical terminology).

For those who wish to geek out on the subject, I recommend the following paper:

Heavily exploited but poorly known: systematics and biogeography of commercially harvested pythons (Python curtus group) in Southeast Asia by J. SCOTT KEOGH1,2∗ DAVID G. BARKER3 and RICHARD SHINE4
Biological Journal of the Linnean Society (2001), 73: 113–129.
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www.richcrowleyreptiles.com
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here's a photo of a cross...they will vary. This is one that was purchased as a Blood but turned out to be a cross.

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"He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he can never lose." (quote from Jim Elliott, "Shadow of the Almighty"

May I ask....

How do you know this is a cross?
If you purchased it as P. c. brongersmai....what makes it a breitensteini?

To base your conclusion on color alone is NOT an accurate method of determination.

(Meristics....that is a word for the day.)

The crossing of such similar animals will only lead to more confusion...until even scale counts become worthless.

As a side note:
I would suggest that if anyone is interested in seeing photos of hybrids to visit the hybrid forum.
THIS forum should remain a place for those who prefer to maintain clean "blood"lines.
Not trying to ruffle any feathers...or scales...
Hope you understand.

Pat inquired about this as I posted a pair of mutts for FREE on another forum. Which I purchased out of THE classifieds as borneos..I had no use for them as we are anal purists as well..They were posted elsewhere as boots or bbq if ya catch my drift..
Tim.
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www.serpentim.com

LOL!

I catch your drift.
BBQ....tastes like chicken....only muttier.

they should not be extirpated because you have no use for them, you have become lost by your own desire for purism.

All snakes are precious and I understand the wanting for pure bloodlines but would never support them being killed because they don't fit into "our" little program. Shame on you lol.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Frank,

I don't think anyone is advocating killing ANYTHING here.
It was a little bit of "herper's humor".
Lighten up and smile a little.

The animals have no fault in their own existence. And the animals should never be punished for their genetic heritage.
That problem is in the hands of the human, who was irresponsible enough to create them in the first place.

Hybrids could potentially taint the hard work, emotion, time and money that RESPONSIBLE keeps have invested in their animals.
Good breeders honestly represent the animals they sell.
Hybrids could make honest genetic representation very difficult, if not nearly impossible.

We just don't want the pure animals to become polluted with questionable heritage.
That seems reasonable to me.

Should have read....RESPONSIBLE KEEPERS.

I agree with all your statements for SURE, but as you said it is of no fault of their own and some people would cull them for just that reason. I also understood the humor but have heard of people needlessly killing them off. I also believe you can not make a nicer animal by mixing this particlar species of snake.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Why does anyone want these crosses? Making these snakes will only muddy the watters for those who want and expect to get pure specimens of any one of the 3 species. It makes me sick that there is already black blood red blood hybrid Ivories and Matrix out there and this is long before the most blood keepers have even had a chance to get pure red blood Ivories. If you dont want Hybrid Ivories you will have to be carefull who you buy them from. Once it is shown no one wants the hybrids they will get sold off as just morphs with no mention about them being what they are. It may already be happening. Sad day if you ask me.

Ryan Young

Hey Ryan,

Good to see you chime in here.
You know what they say about great minds...

I am aware of those BlackIvory mutts. Also a shame in my opinion.
I was offered the entire group of those animals...and I politely declined!

Hope all is well.
Take care.

Your friend,
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611
970-255-9255

I couldn't agree more Ryan..Sad day..But expect it from somefolks, but not from here!! 100% pure breits and curtus in the future..Trying to enhance the pure is a challenge and creating mutts is simply a lack of caring/concern etc etc...
Tim.
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www.serpentim.com

WOW, I had forgotten about this thread. The snakes I got from Tim were beautiful animals. They now belong to a nice lady in Southwest Mizzou.

But, I now have a very nice pair of little Borneos from Tim. Beautiful little chunks. And puppy tame to boot.

Thanks Tim, your awesome man.
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Pat Higdon
Oklahoma City Herpetological Society Member
4 dumerils boas, 2 albino burmese pythons, 1 ij & 1 jungle carpet python, 2 borneo pythons, 2 borneo/red blood python crosses, 1 dwarf reticulated python, 11 bearded dragons, 15 leopard geckos, 2 tokay geckos & 1 sulcata tortoise