Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I understand that you are all upset about the perspective of a new (american) national law proposing the ban of pythons. I live in Portugal and, every now and then, we have "threats" like that, too. Relax; the real fact is that such law is dead at birth anyway. Sure, it may serve the purpose of some political interest, but it's one of those laws that are doomed to go nowhere, even if passed.
You see, no internal law of any country can step above what's in the international species convention regulation. So, even if the government bans the breeding and keeping of large boids, it can still only confiscate animals from appendix I anyway. So, retics, afrocks, burms (except for Pimbura and Molurus) and all the other common boids in the hobby will still be beyond their power. It's just a big bluff from people who need to talk loud right now so they can climb the ladder of political importance... it's so usual.

i see where you are coming from, and agree with some of what you said. however, this administration is far different than any other we have had. they want (and will stop at nothing to obtain), full government control over the citizens. i dont think its about banning pythons, its about one more thing they can tell and control us not to freely do.
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retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

I completely agree with you. This is a scary government we have in office. Many of the people appointed by Obama have actually publicly stated that they are fans of people like Hitler and Sherman Mau. I'm not kidding.

We are in an entirely different time then ever before in our country and reptiles aside, it is scary and it is not the country that I grew up in at all.

I will continue to fight the ban as it is flat wrong. It has nothing to do with anything other than political control - period.
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1.3 Albino Burmese Pythons
1.0 Green Burmese Python Het Albino
0.1 Granite Burmese Python Het Albino
1.0 Albino Boa Constrictor
0.1 Hypo Boa Constrictor
0.1 Het Albino Boa Constrictor
1.2 Purple Albino Retic
1.0 Tiger Retic Het Albino
0.1 Sunfire Retic Het Albino
A lot Ball Pythons
A lot of Corn Snakes
A lot of King & Milk Snakes
0.1 Savannah Monitor
Yes I have the space for these reptiles and yes I am a responsible keeper and breeder!

You are so right and thanks for not being "afraid" to say it. WE WILL NOT TAKE IT EASY ! This kind of phony Science using the CLIMATE CHANGE (used to be globle warming but it got cold everywhere so they quickly changed the crises name) to force unfair laws on an singled out a group of people with simular intrest. No one believes this crap including them. This would NEVER hold up before this POST AMERICAN adminastration. EVERYONE is under attack by it including kids that are now ban from "bake sales" to raise money for their own underfunded school. Because its "unhealthy" BIG PYTHONS are inspiring animals and these fools have no right to take them away or interfear with our lives with them. Pythons are being taken from the wild and shipped to China for food/T.C voo doo. Why is there no out cry about this like with turtles? What Conservation group is working with Pythons? Its a stepping stone people, they will be after other reptiles soon, and I for one am not going to take it laying down. I support the Python breeders and owners because this is the front line of the battle. Like the sign on my gate. Beware of owner. Vic Morgan spreading the word to the turtle/tortoise owners to help you and our former free country. .....pic caption as posted on tortoise forum.....SUPPORT OUR PYTHON BROS.

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/h/3807-exposed-the-secret-animal-rights-agenda-of-americas-next-regulatory-czar

The problem is that our trusted political leaders are ignoring our constitution and drastically changing the very foundations of our political system and economy with out full disclosure or consent of the people. Much of this is being done for political expediency in order to consolidate power for the progressive socialist movement. I really do not believe that many of our "educated" leaders really believe any of the junk science or the radical agendas that they are promoting, but that they see this as a way to consolidate their power base and change the political status quo for ever. This is nothing short of pay back and the fox is now running the hen house.

We are in full transition as a society from being one that is based on individualism and freedom to one that is based on collectivism, and complete dependency on governmental bureaucracy. This is just one battle in the war over individual rights vs an ever growing governmental take over of every aspect of our lives. Remember that they feel that we are to stupid to be trusted with the responsibilities of freedom.

Sorry for the rant, I lived in Europe for 7 years and the one thing as an American that I refuse to give up quietly is the concept that our individual rights are more important than group rights. I smell a rat when the powers to be re-use the same tactic over and over; i.e. in the name of the environment/public health we must limit your personal freedom based on this junk science. This tactic only works when we are not fully paying attention. In this case they are coming after our pets and our industry, it hits home and it is now personal for many Americans.

I see what you are trying to get at but you must remember that all CITES Appendix species classifications are only for the control of the movement of these species between different countries. CITES has absolutely no jurisdiction over any aspect of animals that are kept or transported within the boundaries of any one given country. It is an international treaty and has no effect on any national laws within a country.

Kelly

Municipalities all across the U.S. have "dangerous animal ordinances". Daily there are confiscations by animal control of giant snakes, crocodilians, turtles etc.
D.C.

cities or municipalities. I was speaking about CITES, or the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species. The original poster referenced Appendix 1 species as defined under the international endangered species convention regulations, which are managed by CITES member countries by mutual agreement. CITES has no regulatory jurisdiction with regards to how any species is handled internally within any country.

Kelly

My post was in response to the original poster. If he thinks that inside the U.S. that the Federal govt. can't ban big snakes he is sadly mistaken. My point is even tiny towns like the one I live near have laws about dangerous animals. I live out in the county so it doesn't affect me but in town (35,000 population) they have a "no constrictor law" that's right 80% of the snakes in the world are illegal. Of course venemous snakes are also illegal so make it an even 90%.
I do think this will be a difficult law to enforce but to think our Federal govt. can't pass laws governing wildlife (indigenous or foreign) inside our borders that's just incorrect.
D.C.

If the National Python Ban turns into law it maybe difficult to enforce, but if it does I believe that it will be a felony to violate the ban. If this is true and one is convicted then take a second and think about the ramifications. As a convicted felon will you be able to vote? Own a gun? Pass a back ground check? Serve in the military? What impact would this have on your professional career?

And, if you choose to clandestinely transport or sell a large constrictor across state lines what risks are you taking? What happens when you go through an ugly divorce and your spouse has an ax to grind? Will your kids say something to a teacher at school? What happens when the person that you sold a snake to gets into trouble?

The ramifications are significant. This ban is designed to kill the industry and end private ownership of large constrictors. AND, it is not the end, the HSUS will not stop or go away, one only needs to look into their history to understand that this cash cow is a true undead monster that can not be killed and must continue to consume donations and freedoms as it grows and grows. Next will be the other reptiles, then other exotics, and then all pets, live stock and then total "liberation" of all animals. Crazy? Yes, they are a radical movement. Somewhere they will be stopped, so lets do it now. The line has been crossed and it is time to not "take it easy."

kelly, I don't think that a country (signed with the convention) could make laws based on CONSERVATION as an excuse to ban a sort of reptile declared non- Appendix I by CITES. That would be just wrong. Unless they are coming up with other justifications for the ban... wich i'm not completely informed of, here.

Again, I understand your concern and where you are trying to go. However, I reiterate that CITES only has jurisdiction over movement of appendix listed animals and plants between different countries, export or import. It does not deal in any manner with the national policies or laws within any specific country. And those countries are in no way required to recognize any CITES regulations within their own boundaries. It is only an import or export regulatory agency for convention member countries. It is unfortunate, but that is the current situation.

Kelly

I understand. In Portugal, however, i was informed that the national Institute for Nature's Conservation (ICN) acted according to CITES, here. But again, we even had a currupt ICN president that was in court for getting money to sign papers for the construction of a mall on protected territory... so, how can we even trust these people anyway (?)
Anyway, i just hope that things work for the best.

Here in he USA our current administration is moving from a government of the people, by the people, for the people to a government that controls the people, special interests and money welcomed. With knee-jerk reactions from severely uninformed, pubic-to-the-world politicians on-the-take.

Now is definitely NOT the time for us to "take it easy."

Bill

You understand, of course, that by "take it easy" i mean "don't think in panic while you act", never "give it up". This is actually a supporting thread.

Point taken, salute my friend. It is an emotional time for many of us and it has be become personal. This is a fight that nobody wants, but one that we can never walk away from.