Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was just watching Wild Recon on Animal Planet with Donald Schultz, and he stumbled across a Berg Adder in Southern Africa. I was wondering why after collecting a sample from the Berg Adder, the snake died soon after? Does anyone know why milking for venom would prove to be fatal for this species or possibly other species of snakes?

A lot depends on how they are caught and handled. With some species such as lg. Crotalus just by holding behind the neck improperly can break their neck and kill them. These large snakes struggle violently and can break their own necks during the process. The Crotalus durrisus group are very susceptible to this happening for instance. Bitis atropos are delicate snakes to begin with.....
-----
Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I happen to catch the show ( good for a few laughs sometimes) & at first I thought it was dead, but it was treated as if it was alive. Could it be feigning its death, or in shock?

Matthew

Only if the handler does not know what he is doing would the animal die. I have had snakes on the venom production line for over 30 years now. I have extracted from Berg Adder they did not die.

Jim Harrison

Jim, the short time I was on a venom line I found that C. durissus ssp. were the hardest to hold for venom extraction without hurting them. You have a LOT more experience than me on this subject. What are your thoughts on C. durissus when compared to others?....thanks
-----
Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom,
I agree that durissus are hard to work with out damaging the neck. Thats why I always put them up a tube to extract from. I have a video on our youtube channel of extractions from durissus showing how we use the tube.

Jim

What about Bushmasters? I've heard from someone who works closely with them (and has bred them in captivity) that the reason you can't milk them in the traditional way, is because it causes a great deal of stress-related lactic acid build up, which subsequently kills the snake. Any truth to this? Or is this just theory?

Bushmaster's can be extracted from with no problems . If the animals are healthy and you are not rough with them it lowers the stress. Check out our extraction venom of bushmasters on youtube.

Jim Harrison

Wow. The guy we talked to went on this long thing about how the only way he could get venom out was to use little rubber basketballs that he heated up and then rolled by the snake so it would strike. Then had to cut the little ball open to extract the venom. Don't wanna name any names obviously, but it's someone we've done a good deal of business with/for and I didn't see any reason for him to lie. Definitely thought it a bit suspect...at the very least extravagant, or even unneccesary. Thanks for clearing that up though. I obviously don't own them, so was just throwing out what I'd been told.

While I only worked extracting venom for a short time a long time ago I still have several close friends that do this for a living. I have NEVER heard anything even remotely like that being used to extract venom....
-----
Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

The guy owns a "shock and awe" type of reptile establishment. But this was told to me and another friend of mine during off hours while we were delivering food/picking up animals. Since I don't personally milk snakes, I obviously had no reason to believe or disbelieve him on this. It definitely seemed a bit superfluous at the time, don't get me wrong, but since it had no real bearing on my own collection, i guess I had no reason to question it! Glad to get some outside input on the matter as well though.

Regarding the Berg on the show, he was talking about the difference between venom extraction, and completely removing the venom glands in the lab (which would require euthanizing the snake.) Field milking would not kill the snake.

I think the show is a good deal for Donald and is fun to watch but the milking in the field is just about worthless I would think.Jim is that true or is the venom being used.I think with a show like that, much more realistic options should be weighed as a goal.It is so fun to watch reptile finds in the wild. When I was a kid I always watched Marlin Perkins.ANIMAL PLANET ,has gone to the animal cop shows so bad this show is a nice change but seems unrealistic to me.
-----
Archie Bottoms

No one I know is using the samples he collects. Most researchers collect their own field samples and you need at least 10 animals to even get a small picture of the venoms possible uses.
Also you do not have to remove the venom glands to get samples of venom or DNa.

Jim

Yeah, but I find it a bit better than Austin Stevens. What a joke that show can be.
For all Donald's thrill seeking ( I'm talking the Sky diving stuff) I find he handles the herps pretty well, always using tongs the right way etc. No hokey camera angles & simulated action. Better than Irwin, too, as far as much less tailing hots.

Matthew

If folks missed the show and want to know what they look like, here's a pair I keep. Female top and male bottom photo.

Dan

Very Nice! I really didn't know they were that colorful ( the one on the show was a SCREAMER!)based on Merhtens old book..

Matt

B. atropos are highly variable in color and pattern. I have seen some that would knock your eyes out, but the majority of the captive ones I've seen are average to somewhat darker in color.

Kelly

Yeah, like most snakes. But obviously, the brighter ones are quite stunning..

Matthew