Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had a hatchling eastern box turtle suddenly died last night. She was easting very good devouring mealworms. She was housed in a 20 gal zilla tank. I had a substrate of zoomed eco earth. We were using a UVA/UVB bulb. And an under tank heater.She was very healthy looking and acting. Her shell was hard and no signs of sickness were present. She feed Saturday night and after feeding burrowed down in the substrate on the warm side of the tank. On Sunday I found her dead. She was warm, and her belly was soft and seemed as if it was splitting a little in the center. If anyone has any info on what might have caused this I would appreciate it.

What were the temps in the tank?

When I checked with a digital human thermometer it said the soil was in to 90's. I had just purchased the new setup and put the turtle in it on Saturday and I did not have reptile thermometer in the tank yet. I plugged the undertank heater in on Saturday morning and the turtle was fine late Saturday night, but dead Sunday. She ate and burrowed in as usual.

It is possible that your little turtle over heated. A temperature of about 94F can be lethal to an incubating egg, so it doesn't seem like a stretch to think that similarly high temperatures could be equally fatal to a hatchling.

Ideally an indoor habitat should have a temperature gradient from about 70F or so at one end to 85F at the other so that a turtle can move around, cool off, warm up and generally regulate its body temperature on its own.

I was thinking this as well. The cage had a cool side and a warm side. The under-tank heater says for use with box turtles. Most literature I have read says to use a under tank heater as a heat source. I know hatch-lings require a great deal of care and I researched care extensively before setting up habitat. We are heartbroken over her death. I have never had a turtle with so much personality. She had been eating meal worms with great success. She had a large meal worm and it looked as if it was alive and going down her throat. So we grabbed the part hanging out of her mouth and broke the piece of the worm off that was hanging out of her mouth. I did not know if a large meal could have caused her untimely death. She acted fine afterward and burrowed down in the bedding as usual and was gone in morning

I've raised many, many hatchlings and never had one expire due to consumption of too much food.

Really, it's impossible to know what killed your turtle (barring having a vet perform a necropsy) but, based on what you've described, heat seems like the likeliest factor.

I've never used an underground heater. Hatchlings in the wild stay buried under leaf litter almost 24/7. Heat comes from above, not below. To keep the temp. up I use a heat emitter on one side and a long tube 5.0 UVB on the other side. Low light,warm humid and moist substrate. Meal worms are also very hard to digest for a hatchling. I'm sorry about your loss. It's so sad when a baby dies.

Sorry for your loss. All you can do is make sure if there were any issues with the set-up that they are corrected and try again. Sometimes babies die suddenly and inexplicably, reptiles or any animal for that matter. I was wondering what kind of heat pad, what kind of UV bulb and wattage and how far away from the substrate it is and how deep the substrate is. It might be better to have one or the other (heat pad under tank or light bulb heat source above) because that way the hatchling can regulate based on the depth it burrows, but getting heat from both directions above and below could be confusing to know which way to go up or down to get away from the heat. If the substrate is deep and moist it would have more forgiveness and insulation. A heat gun was the best money I ever spent for reptile keeping, you can get one for $30 at Pro Exotics and it's worth every penny. You can shoot it on any surface and get an extremely accurate surface temp. and I would shoot for 84-90 tops at the hottest spot in the cage, depending on room temp and/or cool side temp. If the room temp is low 70s hot spot could be more towards 90 but if the room temp is closer to 80 the hot spot would be 84 tops. A small tank like you described might only need a very low wattage bulb, like 25-40 watts depending on the distance from the substrate surface, at most in summer if its towards 80 room temp. Some of the UVB sun bulbs are 100-150 watts and would likely be way overkill for a hatchling, as well as some of the heat pads will run up to 110-120 degrees for desert species. Maybe your set up is fine and something else caused the death and I hope this doesn't sound like a lecture, just trying to help, and I hope your next experience will have a more pleasant long term outcome, like you said they have amazing personality, which is why we all love them so much. Best of luck
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

The heat pad was a heat wave 16watt. The light bulb was a repti glo 18" 5.0 that is 15 watts. I was using the eco earth substrate, and had a block of it in there. The substrate was 2-3 inches deep at least and moist. As I read having a deep substrate can have negative effects if the turtle burrows to deeply. She was in the setup with no problems for Friday and Saturday, and When I checked on her Sunday she had died. I found the turtle upside down in a creek bed and it appeared dead. I had been trying to get her good and healthy and a little bigger before releasing her back to the wild. I would never have taken her, but she seemed gravely ill. After a few days of hydration and food she perked up. She could have been in worse shape than i though when I found her. The creek is prone to rapidly flood and had a large presence of raccoon tracks, so a hatch ling that was stuck upside down was sure to meet a grisly fate. I tried my best but sadly she didn't make it.

Hearing those details I doubt it was an overheating issue. Sounds more likely a genetic defect or disease since it was a wild caught could have been full of parasites???.
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

Hello,
I heard that sometimes turtles get blocked intestines from eating too many mealworms; the outer shell is hard to digest. If you are going to try again with a hatchling, try crickets and pillbugs. Sorry for your loss.

A lot of good advice on this was made already. But I thought I would add that hatchlings need higher humidity than the adults. Eastern box hatchlings can be kept in damp peat moss. This helps a lot. They should still get a water bowl to drink and soak in but the damp peat will help keep them from loosing too much water and drying out too much.
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Noah was the first snake collector. ~Eric~

Most likely your Box Turtle died from impaction or some other trauma/complication from eating meal worms. As was previously stated, the cuticle can be a problem to digest.

The soft plastron would go unnoticed while alive, as this is the softest weakest part of the shell at that age, due to the forming/yet unformed hinge. Kinda like a baby's soft spot.

I feed my neonates earthworms, baby crickets, small grasshoppers snails/slugs, butterworms, other soft-bodied grubs, and any fruit or vegetable matter they may take. Keep a watchful eye out for ants. They can be a problem.

Many people raise their box turtles in a semi-aquatic environment with half their enclosure consisting of a shallow water element. As in tilting the container slightly (15 degrees or so) with the lower half wet. Box turtle should always be able to touch bottom, even at the deepest point.

Always provide a burrowing medium. A latticework structure just slightly above the substrate provides a secure and psychologically appealing place to bask.

jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

As you can see by the photo the temperature is 96 deg. F. While I would not recommend a temperature above 90 Deg.F for any length of time, it is not fatal for a half a day at a stretch. Could be fatal if the turtle was excessively dessicated/dehydrated.
This picture just taken of 3 Gulf Coast babies maintained outdoors. One is completely hidden by the temp gun. Here, they stay burrowed under a very thick piece of styrofoam. I will be moving them to a cooler location.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer