Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So the name of the forum is deceiving. Is this for people who have herps and kids or kids with herps? Anyway you seem like a fun group so I thought I would post.

Turtlegirl - Saw you in Reptile Mag...very cool.

Here's a pic of my newest purchase. I didn't take the photo so I want to credit Michelle Heart of Dark Night Creations. I should be getting her tomorrow. Sadly she doesn't have a name yet.

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Anna Plaxco

Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost (pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - ? & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Hurricane Motley - ?
Boas
0.1 Columbian - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo - Dirt
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Dragon
0.1 Grey - Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

-We have no right to distress any of God's creatures without a very good reason; we call them dumb animals, and so they are for they cannot tell us how they feel; but they do not suffer less because they have no words. -Anna Sewell

Hello and Welcome to the Forum!!

Thanks

btw, I love your corn snake! -Very nice.
Here's my Corn...

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-Lauren

~ Lauren's Lizards ~

groups.yahoo.com/group/LaurensLizards

Thanks! Great snake. I'll post some of my others when I get the pictures uploaded.

Here's an '01 hypo that I got about a month ago.

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Anna Plaxco

Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost (pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - ? & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Hurricane Motley - ?
Boas
0.1 Columbian - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo - Dirt
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Dragon
0.1 Grey - Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

-We have no right to distress any of God's creatures without a very good reason; we call them dumb animals, and so they are for they cannot tell us how they feel; but they do not suffer less because they have no words. -Anna Sewell

Haha your quote sounds like PETA. Recently they were talking about how bad fishing is because the fish are "hurt" by the hooks, which they can not even feel since they don't have brain capacity. I am going to start the other PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals. It may be on shirts already, but I am putting it in action. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

...I am going to try not to be offended by being put in league with the real PETA. I don't like those guys. They give people who actually care about animals a bad name. Besides I like to eat tasty animals.. Sign me up for a shirt or whatever...

Anna

Will do. Infact, I am eating two of the tasty fish I caught on sunday...God, I love fish Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Someone beat you to the punch...

www.mtd.com/tasty
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Anna Plaxco

Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost (pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - ? & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Hurricane Motley - ?
Boas
0.1 Columbian - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo - Dirt
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Dragon
0.1 Grey - Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

-We have no right to distress any of God's creatures without a very good reason; we call them dumb animals, and so they are for they cannot tell us how they feel; but they do not suffer less because they have no words. -Anna Sewell

I've eaten many kinds of fish, game, fowl, bobcat, and even a dish prepared by mexicans called minuto that I think was the digestive tract of some kind of large animal. I think the original PETA is trash. These "conservationist" organizations claim they put "earth first", then make ridiculous decisions regarding the environment and herpetoculture. A new PETA will rise.

Ha ha... we humans.. we think with our STOMACHS. And people wonder why america is so fat.

I dont agree with alot of PETAs actions, but I respect what they are trying to do.

I for one, am a vegetarian and hold the deepest sympathy for the animals that my animals eat. It is sad to see that some people have no moral objection to eating meat. We are animals too, but people dont believe it. Whatever, Ignorance can be some people's bliss.
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Starkey
Mystic Eye

Depends on your definition of ignorant. You might see us as ignorant, but we might see you as the same. I mean, animals eat other animals. Look at lions. Look at fish. Hell, look at just about any animal out there. The fact that we are animals ourselves just adds to the fact that we SHOULD be eating meat. I don't think the lion feels sympathy for the gazelle, nor the cat for the bird, ect. Personally, I don't eat vegetables. Anything green that gets on my plate goes right back to the earth...landfill style.
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Isnt it true that we are not like lions, fish, cats and all other animals? We are in fact animals, but we have a highly developed brain capable of a thing called... Compassion. Sure, lions dont feel sympathy for the gazzelle they are eating. Yet, if you were given a knife and then a calf placed in front of you, you could restrain it, kill it, and cut a nice piece of flank for your evening meal? Wait, that is what supermarkets are for.

So, when you guys eat meat, I accept it. Frankly it is your choice. I say "ignorance" because you say "People for the Eating of Tasty Animals". These animals die to sustain your life, and you toss it around as if it means nothing. These animals did not just die though, they suffered for a long time before death finally relieved them of thier pain. Probally to some of you, it really means nothing... But that is your opinion, and I have mine. I just try and get people to think outside the box.
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Starkey
Mystic Eye

Some animals, such as fish, are not even capable of feeling pain. There have been many studies done with different stimuli. They simply do not have the mental capacity. Despite our capacity to think and reason, what do you think our past ancestors did. I mean, if we were made to eat vegetative plant matter, even our teeth would reflect it. But our teeth are not designed just for eating fruits and vegetables. Just my view. I figure if we evolved to eat only vegetables, then our features would reflect it. But they don't. And I toss around the People Eating Tasty Animals thing because PETA is a bunch of crackheads. I guarantee you plenty of them kill snakes in their backyards, smash cockroaches (something I refuse to do). In fact, they are hypocrites because they drive cars. I bet hundreds of lovebugs, dragonflies, and other insects are "slaughtered" by the heartless driving. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

If you can show me some of these "tests" done on fish, that would be nice. Because, as far as I know... Fish have a nervous system, therefore they feel pain.

Our ancestors did infact eat meat. Yet, Our teeth are not designed to eat meat. If you look at our molars(grinding teeth) which could be used to chew up plant matter... and then glance to our front, scissor-like teeth, you can see that we easily could strip plants. Then, we look at our "canines", you notice they are sharp? Perhaps, for piercing the sides of large fruits? Nuts? Example of today... GORILLAS. They have BIG canines... and yes, Completely veg heads....

I dont mean preach, just got offended. Peace.
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Starkey
Mystic Eye

I will look for the university that did the tests. They may have a nervous system, but they don't have the capacity. Just because an animal has a nervous system doesn't mean they can feel pain. You can cut off a cockroaches head and it goes about its life as normal until it dies of starvation. If you have ever killed a live fish, you will notice they don't jerk when you stab them but do jerk when you grab them out of the bucket. As for gorillas, if you are comparing humans to monkeys somewhere a long the evolutionary tree, why stop there. Look at others such as mandrills. They will eat meat. It is the way of life. Humans evolved to hunt, to be a top species. Doesn't mean we should destroy all the species, but harvesting in limits not only keeps my belly full, but keeps the ecological system in balance. It is the food chain. Cheers. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

harvesting in limits can be applied to actual hunting... But when we talk about mass producing the breeding of stock animals to feed our belly it is a differnt animal. If we didnt have feed animals, all the grains and other foods they didnt eat could end world starvation. Hey, an idea. Liberal tree-hugging idea, but idea none the less. We created a system for feeding ourselves. We need to fine tune it though.. but hey.. an opinion...

Snake related... what is your herp count andy? anything new? new chondro?
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Starkey
Mystic Eye

No new chondro. Last one died. Got a white lipped instead. 3 mudsnakes, 2 hognose, a bullsnake, a few odds and ends, but everything else is pretty much the same.

As for harvesting, how is it different. Either way, the animals eat. Trout in the ocean will be eaten just like cows raised in a pasture. Just my view on it. what are you herps looking like these days.
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Sorry. Various interest groups have already suggested such plans, and if you analyze them logically, you'll see they end in disaster. Essentially: Massive habitat destruction, soil degredation, disturbed ecological balance, trade manipulation (look what's going on with the WTO right now!), communistic failure, eventually chaos.
In layman terms, you will have a small rich population controlling food production and distibution, and a low lower class with no middle class. Communist Russia came to demise this way.
Good thinking though!!! You're young. Try thinking smaller scale if you want to make any kind of change instead of just talking about it.
P.S. What would you do when 90% of Americans demand meat? How about when they start poaching wildlife because they can't get beef? Like I said, if you come up with a large-scale idea, someone has already thought of it and deemed it implausable.

Humans' mandibles are better fit for chewing plant matter. Our choice to eat meat actually puts unnecessary wear and tear on our bones. If steak didn't taste so good, I'd be vegetarian, but for health reasons, not moral reasons. On the other side of the argument, you (the one arguing with Andy) seem to just take whatever liberal treehugging view is popular right now. I'm just warning you, that's not the way to go. There are many single issue groups out there that say "earth first", but make their money by making terrible decisions about the environment. If you look over the past 30 years, the NRA and hunting/fishing organizations have done much more to help the ecosystem than greenpeace, the sierra club, PETA, CAP, or the green pine museum. Also, if you believe we are just animals like all the others, you must believe in evolution. If you believe in evolution, you must believe in natural selection/survival of the fittest. If we were to eat, maim and destroy all other animals on the planet and just keep the earth to ourselves, then wouldn't we just be continuing the process and making ourselves highest on the evolutionary ladder. With evolution there is no room for morals, so using both in an argument is invalid.

I actually do not know what is really popular now.. i just have ideas. I try and believe what I think is the best solution for the outcome of the planet, from liberal tree-huggers to pro-life conservatives... It is all taken in and evaluated.

Yes, i do believe in evolution. Survial of the fittest doesnt apply to our species(once again, opinion)... In one school of thought, one might think that Humans obiously transend this idea. Yet, If we do apply to this theory then we are on a rode to extinction, which can be seen in many species. Examples...When an animals hunts out a prey species, or eats the last root in the field... Both sides can argued. Perplexing none the less.

Thanks for the reply, a good debate? Not suitable for where it is at, but interesting none the less. Anyway, peace.
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Starkey
Mystic Eye

If survival of the fittest does not apply to humans, then you cannot simply claim we are animals just like all the others, and you must believe there is something above the simple idea of purposeless evolution, something that separates us. In that aspect, I agree. As for doing what is best for the planet, how old are you? Wise old men with phd's don't claim to know what choices are best. My advice would be:
While you are young, listen to every view on every issue, and question everything. Keep yourself from reading too much of one publication, as many have a biased slant to them (Newsweek, Nature, Time, National Geographic, and ANY television network). When you know as much or more than everyone else on a given topic, then you have the right to voice your opinion. Until then, keep your B.S. detector running. In the field of science, people try to produce results that will gain grant funding, leading to biased assumptions and experiment. Remember the Piltdown Man? How about the doc that claimed he had positive results by exposing women with breast cancer to high-dose chemotherapy?
I just try to shoot down the bad ideas when it comes to the environment. I don't pretend to know half of what is good or decent for our planet. Do you really think you do?

How do you feel about the Nature Conservancy? They've done a hell of a lot. They buy buy buy whatever land they can. I know some good really good herping spots that wouldn't be around if it wasn't for them. Just wondering if you would also lump them in with the other extremest, bad decision making organizations.

I feel the same way about meat. There's nothing wrong with eating it to survive. Pointless killing sometimes bothers me a little though. My dad and his group killed over 35 coyotes last winter and just took the hides. But since they're overpopulated (and I think invasive...?) here, it doesn't bother me that much.

Andrew

The Nature Conservancy sounds good ideally, but so do most of these organizations. I have never dealt with the NC personally, and don't think I know enough about them to judge them, but the likelihood is, I would not agree with their actions. Word on the street is: They bought a crap load of great herping land in west tx to prevent it from being turned into ranchettes (sounds good right?), but eventually decided they wanted to then sell the land to some of the larger scale ranchers so it could still be profitable but not AS ecologically hazardous. Then, they said herping on the land was illegal and that violators would be castrated or something. I tend to think that these big corporate environmental agencies are not what we need. I think what we need is an individual by individual transformation of ideals.

Castrated huh? We could send Scott out as a scout for us...if they caught him, what could they do that hasn't already been done? Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Interesting... Though I guess I'd rather have herping land that I couldn't herp than parking lots and suburbs. Ever read the book Ishmael?

Respect PETA? Don't get me wrong. I hate the idea that animals suffer in this world and I do what I can to make it better. I don't consider myself ignorant or immoral. Diet is a personal choice that involves more than issues than just animal rights. Religion, culture, cost and health concerns can also affect people's decision to eat meat. I believe life is about balance so I try to do some good for animals out of respect for those that I eat. I think it's wonderful you have decided not to eat meat, but I can't agree with you about PETA. Did you know that both PETA and the HSUS support a ban on all exotics including all birds, rodents, big cats and reptiles? They would rather see them KILLED than have individuals own them including whatever reptiles you own and care about. I was personally shocked to hear this but you can read it for yourself on the HSUS website.

I agree this really isn't the place for this discussion, but it really does affect all herp owners so I wanted to add my 2 cents.

Also, I think metalshrek was right that eliminating meat from world markets would be devestating to the poor who rarely have any other affordable/readily available protein source.
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Anna Plaxco

Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost (pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - ? & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Hurricane Motley - ?
Boas
0.1 Columbian - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo - Dirt
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Dragon
0.1 Grey - Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

-We have no right to distress any of God's creatures without a very good reason; we call them dumb animals, and so they are for they cannot tell us how they feel; but they do not suffer less because they have no words. -Anna Sewell

Agreed. I may eat meat, but I also do my part to save the animals. I volunteer at least 3 days a week at a wildlife rehabilitation coalition and am going to start my training to receive my rehabilitation license soon. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Hey...is that a hard license to get where you are? I have been wanting to do something like that for years but I wasn't sure where to start. I live in CA and it's really hard to get permits here to work with any wild or exotic animals. We have a nature center here. Maybe I should check with them?
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Anna Plaxco

Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost (pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - ? & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Hurricane Motley - Dot
Boas
0.1 Columbian - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo - Dirt
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Grey - Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

-We have no right to distress any of God's creatures without a very good reason; we call them dumb animals, and so they are for they cannot tell us how they feel; but they do not suffer less because they have no words. -Anna Sewell

They aren't easy...2 years of work under a mentor and a fair amount of money, depending on what you want to work with. I have been at the shelter for about a year. As far as I know, the first step is taking the IWRC basic skills course after you turn 18. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

That sounds about the same as CA. I think here it's two years with a mentor working with a specific species and them a million dollars per species permit. I don't know if I have to take a class or not. Unfortunately, I haven't worked with any wild species yet so I am starting from scratch. Thanks for your information though. It's nice to here how other states handle it. You're in TX right?
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Anna Plaxco

Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost (pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - ? & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Hurricane Motley - Dot
Boas
0.1 Columbian - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo - Dirt
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Grey - Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

-We have no right to distress any of God's creatures without a very good reason; we call them dumb animals, and so they are for they cannot tell us how they feel; but they do not suffer less because they have no words. -Anna Sewell

Yep, here in Texas. Lucky your in CA. My dad is from there...we visit a lot. You surf by any chance?
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Lol...'cause everybody in CA surfs? Are you a cowboy? Just kidding...had to give you a hard time. Actually I'm from near Sacramento which is northern CA. The closest beach is San Francisco where the water is normally anywhere from 30-60 degrees...freezing. Some people are totally die-hard and will surf in that stuff but not me. Too bad though because I have tried down in Southern CA before and it's great. I love the ocean but boating is more my style. I am going to learn to SCUBA dive in a couple of weeks in Mexico. Where I am from though you get more snowboarders than surfers. I'm right near Lake Tahoe and all that skiing.

What part of CA do you visit?
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Anna Plaxco

Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost (pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - ? & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Hurricane Motley - Dot
Boas
0.1 Columbian - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo - Dirt
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Grey - Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

-We have no right to distress any of God's creatures without a very good reason; we call them dumb animals, and so they are for they cannot tell us how they feel; but they do not suffer less because they have no words. -Anna Sewell

Nice. I am thinking about heading out to Davis for college. Good vet school...'nuff said. As for the stereotypical thing, I was just asking 'cause I do. Ocean Beach was fun...it was summer but the water was still in the 40's. Santa Cruz was even better...shore break of like 5 ft. Good times. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Davis is a good ag/vet school and the local herp society meets there too. Did you know they even offer a degree in Wild Life Management or something like that? Sacramento can be pretty fun if you know where to go and there are a lot of places that are in driving distance for day trips. I have friends that surf in Monterey. The water's cold but they say it's fun.

Oh, and congrats on the RES you saved. Saw the post on the rehab page.
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Anna Plaxco

Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost (pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - ? & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Hurricane Motley - Dot
Boas
0.1 Columbian - Bella
Lizards
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo - Dirt
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Grey - Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

-We have no right to distress any of God's creatures without a very good reason; we call them dumb animals, and so they are for they cannot tell us how they feel; but they do not suffer less because they have no words. -Anna Sewell

I love Monterey. You can swim and the seals and sea lions are like RIGHT there. My parents say that if I go to Davis they will buy a house in the wine country. As for the water being cold, its California...what else could it be? lol. I remember being in bay area for 4th of july last year and I had to wear like 3 layers because it was like 40 degrees. I almost froze lol. But I love Ca...great state. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

whats wrong with animals eating animals? God said eat every animal(ecept us)its just fine.