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Grandma's first Scout clutch

rpelaez Sep 11, 2011 07:47 PM

Grandma is what I affectionately call a seventeen year old female alterna - Boy Scout Rd locale. She resided in the collection of Ric Blair and was acquired by Russ Cormack as Ric was blowing out his collection. Russ sent her to me to pair up my wc male. I immediately posted pics of her seeking lineage information because Ric didn’t have a clue how she ended up in his collection. All he knew is what the piece of tape said on her enclosure, “ Boy Scout Rd ”. A strong lead was provided by Norm Nunley, who claimed that Grandma was collected by Rainer Fesser sometime in the mid 90’s. I think I may have posted this information along with her pics looking for someone to corroborate it. In any event, Grandma laid her first clutch of five eggs for me this year. When I tried to list her along with another wc female for Boy Scout Rd that also laid five eggs, Joe said nope, not Grandma, she needed more documentation, so I began a panicked search for Rainer Fesser. I was able to contact Fesser with the aid of another European and a forum that Fesser frequented called Venomland.com. Anyway, Fesser talked about the canyon at the end of Boy Scout Rd like it was yesterday, but he did not collect that snake or any other alterna from Boy Scout Rd. The only other lead I received at the time (from Joe Forks) was Gerard Salmon, which I thought was weak because Norm sounded so sure of Fesser. Long story short, I was able to contact Gerry a few months ago, and he identified Grandma as one of his F1’s from a clutch in 1994. He had sold a pair from this clutch to Ric Blair that included Grandma. Gerry was able to provide me with all the necessary documentation of her wc parents. Here is the first clutch of her 2011 offspring, followed by pics of Grandma and my wc male.

Robert

Replies (7)

mrkent Sep 11, 2011 11:34 PM

Very interesting post Robert. I guess that demonstrates the importance of good record keeping!
-----
Kent

1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
1.2 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
0.0.18 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
1.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 2000 and something

Colossians 3:17

rpelaez Sep 12, 2011 08:17 PM

I think it may also demonstrate the benefit of a tough standard...

RP

ectimaeus Sep 12, 2011 11:05 AM

Did they come out 2.3

ECTimaeus

rpelaez Sep 12, 2011 12:06 PM

I haven’t sexed them, so no answer yet on your speckling theory. There is an interesting difference in feeding response between this WCxF1 clutch and my other WCxWC clutch. The WCxWC clutch is a bit more difficult to get going. Only one of five is taking scented f/t pinks, one has not hit on anything, and the remaining three are taking f/t lizards, but inconsistently. Grandma’s clutch, on the other hand, took to scented f/t pinks a day after their first shed.

Robert

ectimaeus Sep 12, 2011 12:58 PM

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder, if there is any relationship betwen the mother and her eggs with the passing of information genetically that could influence the foods that the offspring eat. In other words, maybe the mother has been eating mice so long that it is somehow passed on to offspring that is what they want to eat also. Maybe it could have to do with the material the mother makes the egg shells out of and the babies spend their 60 - 70 days smelling/tasting that material. Interesting questions. Something has got to trigger the babies. Anyone out there know???????? Maybe some of our more learned herpers can tell us what the scientific community has determined.

ECTimaeus

Robert Haase Sep 12, 2011 08:43 PM

I believe the applicable term to a species exhibiting prey preference based on gender and age class is "resource partitioning". It occurs among many vertebrate species and varies by geographic populations.

BobHansen Sep 12, 2011 11:18 PM

What you are referring to is called "innate prey preference." It has been studied in some detail in some species of garter snakes (PM me for citations and/or pdf's), but to my knowledge never in any Lampropeltis. The patterns we see—such as what Robert described above—one clutch much more willing to accept mice, another lizards only, etc., has played out many times, often to our frustration. I've seen it in all mexicana-complex species. Whether these patterns can be explained by genetics or "maternal influences" (e.g., maternal diet) or something else entirely is utterly unknown. A British herpetoculturist, Jon Coote, suggested (article available for download here: http://www.sierraherps.com/bibliography) that hatchling prey preferences in alterna might be influenced by scenting of incubating eggs. He never tried this himself, so the idea is out there waiting to be confirmed or refuted.

Cheers,

BH
www.sierraherps.com

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