Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can an asian water monitor and a red ear slider share the same body of water and remain healthy?

Hi, yes, they could remain healthy together...... just until the Water monitor gets big enough to eat the terrapin, which might be quite soon!

For the most part it is not a good idea to co-habitate different species or reptiles for the following reasons.

Pathogens
Parasites
Stress
one injuring or eating the other.

My advice is to keep the turtle and monitor separate. Not need to keep them together and no actual good will come about it.

I think I going to disagree on this one.

I think your looking at this from a totally human control point of view.

If you would stop and look at this from the animals point of view. Its common for turtles to bask and live with Crocs, alligators, water monitors, and snakes. I think someone posted a pic a while ago of such a thing.

In nature and in captivity, healthy balanced animals not only get along with other species, but seem to seek out their company.

Yes, common sense applies, like do not use sick unhealthy animals, which you shouldn't have in the first place. And do not start out with mismatched sizes. Like a big water monitor and small turtle or a large slider and small water monitor, A large RES can and does attack and kill fairly large animals.

We have a pond with RES and they ambush and eat doves. In spide of some folks thinking they are vegetarians as adults.

I wonder what you think a monitor in a cage is suppose to do all day long. With the only interaction being you for a few mins. Good luck

The monitor is about 13 inches.....The RES is maybe the size of a hlf dollar coin

Was kinda thinking that also.....I think I might let the RES go, i had actually rescued him when he was tiny.....My dog found him in the backyard, he was in her mouth yikes.

Dude, for someone so "up on all things varanid" you say some pretty stupid stuff sometimes. Reptiles of different species seek eachothers company? LOL. They do not even seek the company from animals in their own species. These are solitary animals. Never evolved the need to have any type of emotional or social bond with eachother or other species.

Sure, turtles bask with crocs. I can also find at least a dozen photos of crocs eating turtles.

So you really think it is a good idea to house 2 wild caudght reptiles from 2 differen parts of the world?

So you really think it is a good idea to house 2 wild caudght reptiles from 2 differen parts of the world?

I've news for you, unless you are keeping animals from different parts of the world in separate buildings you are housing them together. It does not matter if they are in separate enclosures they are still in close enough contact that any pathogens are going to spread between them. furthermore if red eared sliders were going to cause any serious problems with monitors it would have happened by now right in southeast asia. Most of those ponds at the buddhist temples that are full of turtles are loaded with red eared sliders.I seem to recall that they are one of the most invasive reptile species out there and have established populations world wide. A friend of mine who taught at SU once told me a story of one of his students who smuggled 2 turtles back from Thailand that she stole from a buddhist temple. Care to guess what species they were? On a personal note (and I am aware of the potential risks.) I kept a male cordylus tropidosternum in with a pair of grandis day geckos for over 10 years. for some reason that is where he ended up. The particular pair of day geckos he was housed with produced eggs better than any other pair of day geckos I had such good production that I refused to move the cordylid lizard in fear that doing so would screw up my egg production.

"On a personal note (and I am aware of the potential risks.) I kept a male cordylus tropidosternum in with a pair of grandis day geckos for over 10 years. for some reason that is where he ended up. The particular pair of day geckos he was housed with produced eggs better than any other pair of day geckos I had such good production that I refused to move the cordylid lizard in fear that doing so would screw up my egg production."

Honestly, if that worked for you, that is great. No one can argue your experience and overall results. However, if you never remoed the other species, there is no way of telling if the other species had anything to do with your success.

For the most part (and not many will disagree) it is never a good idea to co-habitate species ESPECIALLY if they are not from the same place. It is commonly agreed upon that mixing species is not a good idea and there are many unnecessary risks involved. It is much more beneficial to just offer separate housing for each species. Pretty simple.

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I find it odd that you use the fact something is "commonly agreed upon" as evidence that something should not be done. If YOU have not kept animals together and observed every facet of how it improved or worsened their lives I find it strange that an intelligent individual would be so adamant about something he cannot possibly know. I think we should take a lesson from history, think about what was "commonly agreed upon" for the little turtles sold in tiny enclosures or the fact that people thought reptiles would grow to their enclosures. Think "commonly agreed upon" diets for torts and iguanas not all that long ago. Remember when it was "commonly agreed upon" that monitor cell structure broke down at temps above 108F? You may look back and mock these things now but based on what you have said here you would have been doing and still would be doing some of those things if somebody had not tested something other than what was "commonly agreed upon".

Mixing species is something that should be done carefully by experienced keepers with the brains to evaluate the health of their animals and more importantly one who can gauge progression/regression of those animals. I think it is something that should be tested, responsibly. I am not saying its definitely good to mix, I am just saying its a bit foolish to say absolutely yes or absolutely no unless its been tested, with proper husbandry. Anybody ever see those fancy aquarium places where they keep literally hundreds of different species of fish in the same tanks with large predator fish, marine reptiles, birds, crustaceans and on rarer occasion mammals?

I don't necessarily believe that having a lizard of a different species increased production. I will say this however, when I have 30 pairs of day geckos producing eggs and one tank produces significantly more eggs than the others my instinct is to not mess with that cage unless the health of the female is being compromised from overproduction. If that means leaving another animal in the cage against the so called conventional wisdom then so be it. One thing I learned early on with day geckos is once they start producing eggs for the year the best way to keep up production is to stay out of the cages.
I will also stand by what I said before, if you are keeping multiple species in the same room or even the same house you are still housing them together as far as pathogens are concerned. It matters very little if they are in different tanks. Those of us who actually have experience as opposed to what we read on the internet or in some reptile magazine (do they still have those?) are well aware of that.

Really, it may be stupid to you, but its not stupid to me or the animals. I have lots and lots of pics of wild reptiles, in the company of other species. You get to think what you want, what we see it in the field all the time.

Also, it appears that way in captivity as well. We have seen it here and with friends animals. I am sorry if you do not like it.

Also, I want to make a point, realistically, 95% or more of these animals your talking about are going to die in their first year in captivity. So how is your protective approach working with real numbers. heck, at least give them some kind of life before the die.

Again, my long and real experience tells me one thing. And that is, these animals are more complicated then you may think.

Also about the pathogens etc, your captives should really free of them anyway. So it should not be a problem. And in reality its not a problem. Cheers

Honestly Frank, looking at your advice and "ideas" it seems as if you want people to fail in keeping these animals alive in captivity.

How can you know for sure that your newley imported wild caught animal if free of pathogens and parasites? How can you possibly think that interspecies housing will not cause stress on one or several animals in the cage?

You logic is taking steps backwards in the hobby. Get with the times, relic.

Honestly Gregg, I do not understand you at all.

Its very easy to tell is a monitor is healthy, it grows like a weed, or even better, take it to a vet and have a physical done and a fecal.

About calling me names, good luck with that. hahahahahaha relic. If I am one, then so be it, I have had monitors eggs in the incubator since 1991 every month since then. Hmmmm relic.

As a relic, my experience level has had a chance to grow and change. And this is one of those areas of change.

Monitors seem do enjoy interaction. Which is normal and natural to their lives. To take away everything that they normally and naturally do is wrong.

I mentioned that as it is, 95% or more of the monitors imported this year, will be dead by this time next year. So what do you think is the problem?

And why don't I have that problem, you know, being a relic and such? Why don't the keepers on our forum have that problem? Hmmmmmmm oh because we are what, relics.

Me thinks you got it backwards, and stop with the name calling or you will end up on the sidelines.

You can make this a good thread if you could actually add something meaningful. Try that please.

Frank, the relic thing was more of a joke and not exacty what I think about you, well, for the most part anyway. I thought it was kind of funny.

Quote FR "Monitors seem do enjoy interaction. Which is normal and natural to their lives. To take away everything that they normally and naturally do is wrong."

Monitors and most other reptiles do not seak out or "enjoy" company. They have no social skills or structure. They do not like or love anything.

Nothing we do in captivity is "natural". You can not get any more far from "natural" when keeping these animals in our homes. The fact is, they do not "pal around" with eachother in the wild. They do not "mingle" with different species unless they are looking to eat the other said species or are competing for the same optimal conditions. Whats next? They respond to human command?

Since you are so worried about their "natural" way of life, do you let them go into aestivation? Do you allow them to cycle? Predators are also a part of their natural life. Do you throw some carpet pythons in with your Aussie varanids to spark things up?

Do not try to pull the "its happens in nature" card. Nothing we do in captivity is in any way, shape, or form, natural.

Quote FR "I mentioned that as it is, 95% or more of the monitors imported this year, will be dead by this time next year. So what do you think is the problem?"

Well unless you have actual numbers, your "95% or more" is just your unfounded opinion or guess. The % could be more or less.

The reasom why so many WC imports die is because of the entire process to get her. They are caught, kept in sub par conditions for who knows how long, shipped half way around the world in crappy conditions, arrive at wholesalers, depending on what wholesaler they end up with depends on the level of care they get.

Crappy inports will die sooner. The healthy imports will make their way into the hands of two types of keepers. The bad one being the kid or adult that still thinks newspaper and a heat lamp is all that is needed to keep a monitor alive. Obviously even good wc imports will not do well for long. The lucky ones will make their way into capable keepers hands like yours, mine, and some of the other posters on this site. They will have the best chance of a healthy captive life. There is however, no guarantee they will make it even in the best of hands.

There are many problems, not just one and I seriously doubt the deaths have anything to do at all with a varanid not being able to hang out with its little turtle buddies. Stress from being caught, housed in filthy crowed conditions, being shipped and put back into more crowed condition before being shiped again will cause a reptiles immune system to crash allowing parasites and pathogens seriously affect a reptiles health when it would normally deal with these things easily. Adding more stress by introducing a foreign species is not only not the best thing to do but it is also a stupid thing to do. And to tall someone (who is apparently new to keeping these animals) that it is ok to mix species is beyond stupid.

Well there you go Gregg, you know everything about monitors and me, yet, you have still done nothing with monitors.

So heres the deal, please get back to be when you have actually gained some manner of accomplishments. You know, repeatedly produced results with your monitors.

After you do that, you and I could actually have some common grounds to carry on a conversation. As it is, you have no actual reason or experience to know anything about monitors(captive or not).

Good luck with your accomplishments. And I mean that, not for your sake or my sake, for your monitors sake and the sake of those folks that read your posts. Again, good luck