Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just got a savannah off of someone who no longer wanted theirs. She is about 16" long. I put her in a custom 8x2x2 tank. I have a large water/soaking area, damp cypress mulch for substrate( realize this may not be as good as I had thought), cool temps in the lower 70's and basking surface temps at 115. I just added two more 45 watt halogen bulbs to try and get the surface temps up to between 135-150. I am getting a new humidity gauge tomorrow as mine is M.I.A.! With the damp substrate and the soaking area, she should be fine for one night.

My problems/questions are as follows:

1) The person I received the lizard from said that she will not eat insects and that they fed her ground turkey. I realize that Savannahs eat mainly insects and the occasional aquatic critter (crayfish, shrimps, etc.). I have only tried very active superworms and she shows no interest whatsoever. I am willing to go out and get other insects if need be, but what is the best? The wife forbids roaches in the house!

2) When I got her home, she soaked in the water for about 3 hours. Now she just lays in a burrow or hides behind a Rete's stack that I made. She seems very lethargic, but this could be because she is in a new environment. Is this normal?

Please help me. If I am doing something wrong, not doing it at all, or whatever, please let me know. I am concerned about the health of the lizard as I sold my reptile and rodent collection to get one monitor.

First, Savs are grassland animals, not raparian. So all this wet/damp stuff is foregin to it.

They live in burrows, its there they conserve humidity. In otherwords, soaking is not what they do, soaking indicates, extreme dehydration. While its fine to soak a monitor in rehab. Please learn to prevent dehydration so there is no need to soak.

With the amount of heat your applying, my bet is you have a screen lid and the lights are on top. That is BAD, that is exactly what causes dehydration. Your neating air, because of the high heat required by monitors, that hot air is raising out of the cage and dehydrating whats in the cage, Substrate, water bowl, and the animal. Fix that, cover the lid, place the heat lamps inside the cage, USE LESS HEAT THAT WILL NOT BURN THE MONITOR and all will be well.

Savs are monitors, they eat anything thats available. Wild or captive. From the smallest to the largest, all have a wide wide range of prey items they will utililize.

What you feed really depends on what your hoping to accomplish. If your monitor has a full heat range to utilize, then rodents are best. OF course insects can be included if you like. Again, if your conditions are good, monitors attempt to eat anything and ask questions as to what it was, LATER.

A healthy sav will attempt to consume mice, birds, fish, logs, toyotas, coke cans, and you, and do so on a daily basis. That is, eat their fill daily and be starving the next day. IF CONDITIONS ALLOW

So,
1. prevent dehydration, limit air loss, allow burrowing etc.
2. provide a fairly wide range of usable temps, 70F to 150F and the ability to use them while basking and while in/under.
3. don't worry about what its eating now, if you do 1. and 2. it will soon return to acting like the world is its dinner plate.

Of course, a vet visit is recomended. That way, you can start with a level playing field. best of luck

Thank you for your response!

I seem to be getting extremely conflicting information about Savannahs. With my other reptiles I have always known someone who breeds them for a living so it has been very easy for me to just talk to them and find out what I need to know. With savannah's it have been the opposite.

A lot of the sites I have been reading say that I need to keep a fairly high humidity level throughout the entire enclosure and that a sandy soil mix or cypress mulch would be great because it can conserve moisture. HOWEVER, what you say does make sense and has been confirmed somewhat by researching savannah grasslands.

I actually have a large solid plywood enclosure (with the exception of the windows in the doors) that has two very large solid "hoods" that hold my lighting out of the reach of the monitor. There is very little ventilation in the enclosure. I have 4 smaller heat lights and two 4' fluorescent lights in the fixtures.

As far as the feeding is concerned, the so called online "experts" say that feeding anything that is not an insect or a marine invertebrate is horrible (I try NOT to trust what they say, but with monitors I am by no means an expert). You are saying that rodents, raw turkey, eggs, and insects are okay? I have both calcium and a herp vitamin supplement. I do not mind feeding rodents as they can be easy to come by particularly if she will eat F/T.

The problem with varanids is work. They take work, so there are very few who have actually produced them REPEATEDLY.

Monitors are very general reptiles, That is, they have very little in adaptions, and conquer their habitat with behavior.

They climb, dig, swim, and do whatever to obtain prey. All have tails, legs, teeth etc. all species are fairly similar. The big difference in species is size. From tiny little monitors, to Komodos. Yet, similar in all other ways.

If you read Auffenburgs Komodo Monitor book, it shows burrows very well. That would directly apply to Savs.

I have produced many many species to many generations and if there were three things that are very important, it would be,

Hydration, temp range and WHOLE PREY ITEMS. Make sandwiches with that turkey meat, if you want to feed turkey, feed them turkeys.

WHat is funny is, when that turkey diet first came out, it was an attempt by the folks at CRES to duplicate a rodent. The funny part is, we have rodents and lots of them, and the monitors love to eat them.

Good husbandry is husbandry you can DEPEND on. Whole prey items are dependable. No worries, you do not have to add suppliments or anything. Use meats like turkey and now its up to you to add and subtract and balance, etc. Why would you want to make something easy, HARD? This question is beyond me. I want easy.

The reason I want easy with diet is, I still have plenty of other areas to take up my time.

Back to breeding monitors, its so easy its rediculus, except for BEHAVIOR. This is where we run into problems. Some get along, some kill eachother. And others do neither.

If you raise them together, they generally work well together, and you have to put them together to breed them.

Other then that, you do not hibernate them, or cycle them in anyway, good pairs, feed them well, nest them well and you get babies coming out like pez despensers.

Thank you! I appreciate hearing from someone with actual experience. I will try and switch her diet over to whole prey. I do not mind the work. I sold over 100 animals to get down to this one reptile. She is my baby and I will spend the time and effort needed to see her succeed. I will also see if I can buy a copy of the book you mentioned. Thanks again!

Hi,
I`ll make a few comments on captive diet of the Savannah monitor; there are a number of so-called "experts" (virtual beginners) telling keepers that in the wild they never ever eat rodents (not true), and therefore should not do so in captivity, and if these are fed the monitor will become obese and die from "fatty liver" disease, though there`s absolutely no evidence for that; no vet reports or long term details of how the animals were kept, just that rodents were the cause of all the problems?
The hundreds of thousands of Savannah monitors that have died in a relatively short space of time die because they are not supported (insufficient temps, humidity, etc, etc).
A properly supported V. exanthematicus will NOT become obese or die prematurely when offered the proper conditions even if rodents are a part of their diet (I personally believe they should DEFINITELY form a part). If they are not supported, no diet is healthy!!

One other question:

I can get some good quality soil from a local topsoil and mulch dealer. Do I just need to put the soil in the enclosure? How do I get the proper humidity in the enclosure if that is the case? I am lost on this!

Yes, providing there are no chemicals the soil should be fine, it`s usually best to add some playsand (it`s trial and error, but start around 75 to 25% soil to sand mix). It should be moist, not wet and tamped down very firmly so it will hold a burrow (18 to 24 inches deep is o.k).
Having a deep substrate will in itself help maintain a good humidity range (keeping the monitor hydrated), if you cover with a layer of (non-toxic) leaves or similar it will help stop the soil drying out too quickly.

Might want to get the female spayed if you have access to a reptile vet. A high percentage of females die in captivity once they start getting old enough to lay eggs. People don't know how ot make the soil deep enough or be in the right condition for them to lay eggs. Even people who have been keepign monitors for a long time will run into problems with this....with certain species. My cage is built from a cattle trough to hold the dirt. Aquariums aren't deep enough for females. That will kill them.

*Update*

After talking to the former owner I have found out the following:

1) The monitor was bought at a reptile show as a male, they just think it is a female.

2) They fed it canned dog food that was 95% turkey.

Right now I am pretty pissed off. It was my mistake for buying from someone that didn't directly breed them. But now I am stuck with an animal that is probably not that healthy and won't eat. I have tried insects, f/t rodents, and even ground turkey. I will try a live hopper and see what happens. Other than that I don't know what to do. I am trying to remain optimistic and happy about my new lizard, but I am getting frustrated quickly!

Hang in there, the chances of finding a true captive hatched one is so slim. Just do the best you can now.

Dig whatever your feeding it in raw egg, That is a good way to get one started.

It would help if you show some pics. Best wishes

Update #2

He finally ate I dipped a hopper mouse in raw egg and dangled in front of his face and he devoured it! Thanks for the advice!

I built some Rete's stacks under the heat lamps. He has yet to figure out that the heat is up there?? I built some new smaller stacks to put in there. I will try to figure out how to upload pictures. Do the stacks have to have a hole in the middle? I have heard some say yes, others say it defeats the purpose?? If I can get him to bask under his heat lamps I would feel a whole lot better! I really don't think that the previous owners had a good basking spot.

Also, should I feed him a hopper ever day for a while since he has not been fed properly or should I wait till I see a bow movement?

I will look and see how to upload pictures.

Figured out how to load pictures So, we have my poor little guy Nessie and my new stacks (without holes).

I'm no expert on savs but I think there are a few adjustments to make to that stack. I don't see savs as the type to actively climb to the top of that stack and bask. I would get the soil deep enough to where you could bury that whole stack, except the top layer. Bring the lights down close to the substrate, within a few inches (6-7" so that the temps will be hot enough to be at basking 150ish on surface. Heat will then get underground in the stack (where the lizard likely wants to be). I wouldn't use the black topsoil that comes in bags either. Digs some or go to a landscape yard and get some dirt. Think of the african savanna, google pictures. that is were they live, flat land, underground. Again I have never owned a sav, but like FR said, most monitors have the same basic needs. Savs in particular live underground most of the time. They want to be warm and hidden at the same time.

thank you once again! i have buried stacks in a couple different locations and lowered one of my lights to about 6or8 inches from the top of the stack. he still hasn't come out to bask but he should be pretty warm and cozy if nothing else.

on a rodent diet how often should they be fed? daily or after he poos

again never had a sav, but most monitors when kept at proper temps will be hungry all the time. When kept hot enough they will always be eating and growing very fast. So once your animal is hot and healthy, daily feedings. probably a couple of mice a day or so, or until they wont aggressively take food anymore. try to avoid canned foods and turkey. they do not offer all that a monitor needs in a diet.

i have no problem with feeding rodents and other whole food items. i would prefer that. i have the basking temps up to 132. i bought abigger heat bulb today that should get me to150. he is now using the different stacks to regulate his temps depending on his needs. he still has only eaten once but he may be letting things settle since he was fed canned dog food? at least things are improving. i am not add worried, although i would like to see him poo something out and eat again.

Hi, when you say you put in a larger bulb to increase the surface temp at the basking site, that may well dry out the surrounding air too much. I think a better idea would be to use low wattage (40 to 50w) halogen bulbs (flood, not spot), maybe 2 or 3 in a row, quite close together so they heat the whole body, then either raise/lower the bulbs or basking platform, or fit a dimmer switch `til you get the desired surface temp. The lower wattages means it shouldn`t effect the relatively high humidity levels this species needs (they originate from tropical climes).

i could do that as well. it was my impression that the humidity levels of the air were were not as crucial as the levels on their hides and that they were from a grasslands and not a tropical region. the Savannah grasslands go many many months with little to no rain. i may be wrong. either way i could add the the smaller lights.

Hi again,
they are from the tropics, during the dry season they remain relatively inactive, that can last up to 8 months of the year in some parts of their range.
In effect you need to offer a range of humidity, it will obviously be lowest around the basking area, perhaps 50% or slightly less, but in the cooler parts you need around 70% (of course the humidity will rise during the night if you turn the main heat lamps off), but they stil need to be breathing relatively humid air whilst active during the day.

Hi crotalusviridis,
are you suggesting feeding mice (rodents) mainly, or as part of the diet; e.g vertebrates and inverts (I believe that rodents in particular should form a part). I only ask because the way it`s worded you seem to be saying feed them (mice) every day, and several at a time (or have I misunderstood)? I`d also like to ask which Varanid species you have kept/keep? Thanks!

I have kept gouldi types. Flavis, and crosses. Again I have never kept Savs but I would think their needs are similar. I know gouldi types are more active than savs and maybe eat more. Gouldi in the wild eat a lot of lizards and inverts. However, they like most varanids will eat anything, and do well on a mostly rodent diet.
Again I am no expert, so who am I. Just trying to relate what I know and help someone. If their is such a thing as a savanna expert ill let them take the wheel.

Hi again crotalusviridis, thanks for the reply and info!
There seems to be at least two schools of thought when it comes to feeding the Savannah monitor in captivity; one popular belief is that they should never, ever receive rodents in the diet because they never take them in the wild (not true), and they will cause obesity and "fatty liver" disease (not true either). It`s thought by some (many?) that that`s why they die in their hundreds of thousands (truly, it`s said it`s because they were fed some mice)!? Health problems are caused when they are not fully supported, in which case no diet is suitable. I`m of the opinion that vertbrates (inc. rodents), can benefit them greatly.
I don`t think in captivity a fully supported V. exanthematicus is much different than most other medium to large Varanid species, both diet-wise and activity levels, meaning they need as much food (energy) as they use (easy)!
I`m not sure there are any real "experts" on Savannah monitors, so few keepers succeed with them, perhaps because they`re seen as a beginner monitor which is far from the truth, in fact they`ve become "disposable" items, unfortunately (as have a number of species).

you are right in saying that the Savannah had become a disposable lizard. i had read the more "popular" sites and read what the people that sold them had to say. they apparently were wrong in a lot of things. now i am stuck playing catch up. i will make the necessary adjustments. i enjoy a challenge. it just sucks that i didn't have good info up front. i appreciate any help you can give.

One small tip; make sure there`s lots of cover around the basking site and feeding/drinking areas in particular, but also throughout the whole enclosure. The monitor must feel secure in the tank before you start trying to have some interaction (tong feeding), and until that time absolutely no forced handling (except in an emergency, of course), so the sooner you finsh the modifications the better.
If you have a basking surface temp between approx 50 to 60c (120 to 140f) it`s fine, they heat up very quickly at this size (you can go slightly higher).
Even at 16inches ToL (total length) it`s possible the animal is already sexually mature.

well i got the basking spot right at least!

as for everything else i think i blundered that. so i should not fed them in a separate container? well maybe that is why he has only eaten once? do you just put it on a dish in there? i use frozen/thawed mice.

Yes, you must just leave the food near where the monitor hides, on no account feed in a separate container, and f/t or f//k are fine. I need to log out (I`m in the U.K, it`s quite late), but keep asking questions and always question the answers so you know why something is said!

i will try that later this afternoon and let you know what happens.

I'm not really sure what yo say about the diet. Our monitor has thrived off of insects with an occasional pinkie (he's still young), though I have heard of others that use turkey as well.

I'm not certain of the lethargy you are seeing. Our Sav was lethargic when we bought it, but it was also underweight and likely near to death. We bought Smaug to save him, and we've accomplished that.

I certainly hope it's not some health issue that's causing the lethargy in your new sav though.

it is frustrating to get a new animal that you have planned for and realize that not only were you give poor information about the proper care of the animal but you were also sold an animal that is in poor health. i have own about 60 or so reptiles in my life and have never really had any problems till now. now i have to play catch up just to be able to enjoy an animal that i should already have been working toward building a bond with. hopefully he will recover and everything willbebe okay. if not i may go back with some bearded dragons.i was hoping for a monitor though.

I placed a thawed mouse on a dish outside his burrow. I also moved the water bowl just outside the burrow. The humidity on the burrow is high, but he is in one of his "cooler" burrows (in the lower 80's). He has not moved in 24 hours and has not eaten the mouse yet. I will check again in the morning. I have no idea what else to do. I imagine that a monitor is at least supposed to be active to the extent the he will move about in a 24 hour period? Even if just from a basking spot to a cool spot. I am not expecting them to be as active as some other lizards, but good grief! A tree sloth has moved more than him, and that is not saying much

Sorry, I need to be quick it`s late. I think the reason for the inactivity is stress, it takes lots of time and patience, you must allow the monitor to feel secure in the enclosure before you can expect "normal" behaviour, not eating for a few days is the natural reaction and really nothing to worry about just now. Continue to leave food and clean water, nothing else, do not disturb the animal at this time (I know it`s frustrating)!