Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey Guys,

Any of you guys know who (Shawn Roberson) or (jcicchino) are? They have posted some great pits in the past but I am not familiar with them. I would love to talk to them if any of you have any information on them.

Thanks,

Jack Noles

jack, i have dealt w/ both of those guys thru the years but no longer have any contact info. i bought a pair of oklahoma bulls from shawn back in '07 & here's an example of what their offspring looks like. real nice contrasts! btw, i still have 2.2 babies from the same parents hatched last july w/ more on the way. they eat f/t adult mice & are very well behaved bulls. email me if you're interested in them & i'll hook you up.

Thanks Dan,

Those are nice Bull snakes. Actually I was interested in some of the Pine snakes they had posted photos of a while back. Since I first posted this I have made contact with several other guys working with Pine snakes.

Jack

Dan,
Saw your post about the Oaklahoma Bulls.

I really enjoy the Hypo Stillwater Bulls like lots of other folks. They are striking animals. I was fortunate enough to get some from J. Ginter. I realize they are not locality in the truest sense of the word and folks often refer to them for their distinct and beautiful form of hypo gene. I realize they were gotten from a bunch of snakes at a Rattlesnake Roundup. ( Barbarians) for me, the "locality" of them being from Oaklahoma is good enough for me. I found this pic on the web a while back of an Oaklahoma Bull. To me it clearly looks like a Stillwater without the hypomelanistic gene displayed.

Are your Oaklahoma Bulls confirmed to be from Oaklahoma?
Do they look like this? Like a SHB with regular melanin?

I like the SHBs I got from J.Ginter so much that I've thought of outbreeding them for the future but would like to keep them as close as possible to Legitimate OK Bulls.

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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.

Resemblance? Nice looking Bull for sure Dan.



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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.

Just did a "Google Earth" look at Stillwater Oklahoma. Since the original animals were gotten from a" Rattlesnake Roundup" I'm thinking it was held on a fairgrounds of sorts in Stillwater ? I'm thinking the participants arrived from all over the area with the poor snakes they found from different locales in OK?

If its a city now of sorts, how likely is it to still find an actual "Stillwater OK" animal?

If you are going to outcross these beautiful animals in a way that keeps locale type of folks happy, would breeding confirmed Oaklahome normals that share the same physical and temperament characteristics be enough?

What are the other Stillwater Oklahoma fans thinking?

Thanks,
Bob.


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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.

Good resemblance there!!
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Genesis 1:1

Stumbled upon this....
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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.

I'm a big fan of the Stillwater hypos,and can honestly say I don't consider them to represent a valid "locality" anything.to my knowledge,no one has captured another genetic match to this mutation ANYWHERE in Oklahoma,(or,anywhere else for that matter?) they are called "Stillwater hypos" because that's where the bucket that held that founding gem was purchased,and that's the way they were first presented to the herpetocultural community.the insistence by some,that they be called something else when outcrossed holds no water with me personally.every single morph mutation has an origin,whether it's a specific geographic location,or "Roy's garage" in Anytown,USA. A genetic mutation is substantially different from a true "geographical variant"...it's not that any random bull snake from Stillwater,Ok. Is significantly noteworthy,or noticably different when compared to a random bull from 100 miles in any direction from that point,what makes these animals significant is the genetic mutation itself...of course this is just my two cents,and I offer it only for those that won't credit it at more than face value! )

Yup. Not feeling much different. Just would like to outcross if I do to some animals that are by and large very similar in disposition and markings. I don't mind that the geographic range is broad in the sense of the whole state of Oklahoma.

I want to preserve, as much as possible the inherent qualities these beautiful animals have naturally.

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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.

I absolutely agree. My favorite bulls are the ones from the central & southern portions of their range,(Kansas,Oklahoma,Texas.) I'm less interested in the northern forms,although I do like them. I'm also strongly in favor of outcrossing when it comes to genetic mutations,so I think your intentions are right on the mark,and along the same track I'd like to take with my animals. I just wanted to weigh in on the whole "Stillwater's are locality morphs" thing. I've been corrected several times when referring to them. The truth is I've collected dozens of bulls from northern,and central Texas that don't look that much different from Oklahoma bulls? If you can get Oklahoma stock..."perfect",I just don't think they're in any way diminished if outcrossed to similar looking bulls from anywhere else.

Yup, they are beauties. I'm very thankful I was able to get some. I recently did some downsizing to make way for growing Pits. Tough choices but less Kingsnakes now. I'm liking less animals and have to be careful aquiring more. Dans animals are good lookers.

For me, it seems to be a balancing act. Having a select few that are rewarding to work with and not be stressful to manage and enough to keep from being bored and keeping things interesting.

Maximum enjoyment/ minimum work....

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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.

Bob, you are killing me with your awesome pits!
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Genesis 1:1

Np
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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.

Bob S, not sure I entirely agree with the minumum work part of the equation! I just cleaned up after my female black pine LOL. However, she recently presented me with five eggs (four good; one maybe good). First pine eggs I have ever seen. They are bigger than chicken eggs! It was her first clutch, but she is an absolute brute and should produce many years of nice clutches. The nicest thing about black pines?? No morphs!! (except for piebald; I guess that is a morph).

That's great. Congratulations!
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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.