Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please attempt to understand this, all and anyone has the right to keep their animals in any method they choose and for whatever reason that makes you choose that method, real or otherwise. So do not get your undies wadded up.

Its again about the animals.

What does bother me is blaming the animal, as in, below, its stated, not all snakes should do well, insinuating that some inherently do not feed well. That is blaming the snake for your failure to support them in a way that covers HOGNOSE, not most hognose.

In nature, the conditions support all hognose to have the want to FEED and feed well. The problem is not a snake that will not feed, its about the ability or luck to find something to feed on.

Mother nature, has culled hognose for tens of thousands of years and selects the individuals that feed. Feeding is mandatory to survival. Feeding is hardwired. To a point if cannibalism. The want to feed is not a natural problem.

So you have complete control over the conditions that support hognose. And many of you take the position that its the animals fault because, my 7 other hogs do well.

The reality is, the problem feeder is the canary, its just the first one to talk back.

In this case, the OP "tweaked" the temps and it responded. I suggested doing that same Tweak to the rest and see how they respond. Then tweak some more.

I suggest offering a wider range of choices and let them pick what they want. Or you can tweak up or tweak down and tweak to your hearts content.

Back to the point of my post, Its not the snakes fault, its NEVER the snakes fault, THEY SIMPLY DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE IN YOUR CAGES. You put them there, so every thing bad is your fault and everything good, is indeed the snakes ability. After all, they are doing just fine, breeding like fiies and have been doing so for tens of thousands of years, WITHOUT US HOG KEEPERS.

NOne of us, not a single one, me included, support our animals in a range as large as they live in naturally. When you as a keeper take away too much, they fail one at a time(the canary) Which is good, that means, its a minor adjustment.

The point, even the experts of the experts, are always making adjustments. Sorry for the rant, its not condescending, its frustration. Have a great day, tomorrow off to the bush again where they are supported to feed, if only they can find food.

Some of you say, its inherent, you know from inbreeding, that happened with corns bla bla bla. Hmmmmmmmmm easy answer, why are there individual unrelated hogs in many different collects doing the same thing????? Its not genetics, its husbandry related.

If and a huge If its genetics. Then is even more your fault.STOP IT. do not baby a genetically unfit snake to reproduce. Cull it. Which does not mean kill it, it means, do not breed it, give to some young person as a pet, whatever, just do not continue those genetics.

You guys know that here, so its my belief that your tweaking because you already believe its related to conditions. And your right, change the conditions. Its really simple. Best of luck from a frustrated old guy

You are inferring that "all" wild snakes would eat if they can find food. Unfortunately there is no way to prove that. I will grant that generally it is a result of husbandry but there could be undiagnosed health issues but since we would have do a necropsy on the non-eaters to prove that. Not likely to happen. I am a believer that just because we find something that seems to work that we should stop looking for something better.

Sorry. I wanted to say that "we should not stop looking".

The actual problem is and I already mentioned it long ago here.

Folks TWEAK and trick and fool with tricking individuals with tuna and salmon and all such. Yet they treat shoebox recipe husbandry(minimal support) as a standard. Newbies, young folks, and nice as they are, are taught by RECIPE, they play follow the leader and never learn about the animal. All they learn is how an advanced keeper has narrowed it down to zero plus or minus 1.(for the animal) because they have too many animals to care for properly.

Gregg keeps animals in racks, but he recognizes if when something is not right, then addresses it. If your going to apply shoebox husbandry, then learn that method. Not trickery and tweaking.

Such books as That morph book, offer a horrible understanding of these animals. Then the author is NOT FROM HERE. Or hes being nice and commerical(to sell books) So again, folks learn the easiest not even close to what supports the animal.

Lastly, your post, your comments, seem to indicate its not known and we should try to learn. Again this is the bothersome part, it was known and applied for 3 decades and is now disappearing because of quick easy information. and the follow the leader mentality. Its no longer about learning or the joy of learning. Its about baseball card keeping(ask if you don't understand) and as little as possible.

Remember, I or no one is saying all or nothing. I am only hoping for some of that all. Unfortunately its going the other way.

The real lastly, every time I come back from the field, I get like this. I flat do not understand why folks REFUSE to enjoy hognose. They are amazing. Best to you

If the knowledge was really here for 3 decades we wouldn't be having these discussions. I have been reading all the posts on this forum for a couple of year's. I think the real issue is that you think your knowldege is the only one out there & you want people to belive everything you say. The only person to ever know everything was hung on a cross 2000 year's ago. The rest of should still be learning. When we think we know we cease to learn!!!

If the knowledge was really here for 3 decades we wouldn't be having these discussions.

When we think we know we cease to learn!!!

No truer words have been spoken!
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Hi Van, I fully understand how folks want to be "the thing" And I could careless.

The problem is and is exactly what I said, things like egg binding, and picky feeders, is what was solved many many years ago. Those things seem to be lost with current recipe husbandry.

I cannot understand why any one would not take some effort to make it easier on the females, when its easy and inexpensive to do.

If I may, In my conversations with Gregg, he uses recipe husbandry, yet adjusts it to cure individual problems. That is All I am trying to point out. My position on nesting seems to have helped even Gregg. I think Gregg does a great job, because he adjusts to the animal.

Whats lacking now is the "BELIEF in the animals" its replaced by a belief in the RECIPE, or belief in what someone told them, and not in the animal. Recipes are great, a great place to start, But they REQUIRE adjusting to fit the animal and the conditions of each individual keeper. Most MISS that.

If you look at some of the discussions, many folks here, automatically blame the animal, if their RECIPE husbandry fails.

They also seem to have a real need to "BE RIGHT" when in fact, there is no right. right with animals is a temporary event that can pass if you do not keep supporting the animal.(and its changing needs)

The fact that some of you whine like little babies, is very telling.

The current generation has minimalized husbandry to a point that its sad. Yet, what does belong to this generation is genetics. Which is wonderful. All I ask is, don't forget about the animals needs in your quest for genetics.

Lastly, you cannot expect me to see eye to eye with sweater box husbandry, when I see these very animals in nature, on a day to day basis. Best wishes.

There is no need to prove, I am sure one is hatched and is abnormally tweaked and dies. That clears it out of the genepool.

The point to your for arguments sake reply is. You have folks here with the feeding problems, with unrelated animals. Its not the animals.

Then you have husbandry that's as minimal as can be. A box, a bowl and some manner of substrate, and you think its the animals fault. These are reptiles that DEPEND on their environment for biological supports(ectotherms) ectotherm - definition of ectotherm by the Free Online Dictionary . An organism that regulates its body temperature largely by exchanging heat with its surroundings; a poikilotherm. ec•to•therm (ˈɛk təˌθɜrm) n. a cold-blooded ...

Not only is heat obtained but other physical needs as well. And you kind sir want every individual to get that from a bare box. hmmmmmmmmmmm They are not just a species, but individuals as well, which means, they each have the choice to obtain their needs differently, to a small degree(pun)

Sadly, these bare boxes do work for some, just not all, which is why I refer to it as AVERAGE(to start).

The minimalistic approach taken so often is sad. But whats worse is those folks blaming the animals.

In this case, the animal in question was TWEAKED(added heat) and it responded by feeding better. So it was IN FACT, not a genetic misfit. My question is, you shouldn't have to tweak, it already should of had that option. Best wishes

The temps I took like this yesterday, ranged from 97F to 106F. It was bloody hot out, but they were out in the HOT voluntarily. At those temps, prey is digested, FAST. By the way, they were all feeding because the bloody bastages all crapped on me. hahahahahaha