Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Sorry for the crappy images, cell phones camera isn't up to snuff.

This girl loves her skull. she hides out in it all the time when she comes up from the deep.

What's the dimensions of the cage? Did you buy or make it? Looks great!

How often does he surface for you?

Now all you need is a tube camera to watch em.

If you ever shoot a video, would love to see it.

12h x 18w x 12d. I bought these from tarantulahomes.com but his site is down now. However tarantulacages.com makes the same thing but 2 inches wider. You can customize the number and location of vents to suit your needs. A bit pricey but well worth putting them on display and watching them dig around. You get to SEE what they are doing underground from time to time. all of mine always make a hollowed out area to stay in. They all do this for me. They remind me of a trap door spider in a lot of ways.

The one pictured is a big female. She comes up a few times a day to set in her skull of doom and survey her turf. I like how fast she comes up when I open the cage to feed or change the water. I have a heat pad on the bottom and spider robotics thermostat to control the temps. It gets fairly warm here and the humidity is always on the higher side of life. No dehydration here

When I first fill the cage with moss its almost full to the top. it slowly compacts over time to what you see here. Then its time for a complete change of substrate.

VERY unique cage and setup! Love it!!
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Genesis 1:1

I like it!!

I have a pair of Mexican kings that are going in a big dirt/sand filled cage. I will post pics when I can.

I'd like to see that. Are they WC?

reako45

Yes I posted a pick down on the thread.

Once I am done I will post some pics.

I read the book "The art of keeping snakes" It is very similar to what FR writes. Great Book! I got it from a friend and thought oh another pet shop book from the 90s...No its detailed and written really well with cool stuff like Bio-active substrate and life events.

Who was the author? thanks

Philippe de Vosjoli. He passed away unfortunately.

I couldn't remember, but I thought so, He was a very insightful man. We spent time talking herps and herp caging.
I most likely stole "life events" from him, or he from me. I had applied that to varanids at the time.
He did great with his "first wave" of herptaculture. The expended thinking with his "Second wave" of herptaculture. But when he got to his "third wave" IT lost all of us.
He was not so envolved in the parts, like nesting, he was interested in the whole. Like creating cages where life events occur without having to nest or this or that.
Hes the one who named me, Goannaman. In three editions of his magazine. The goannaman speaks. When he interviewed me, we sat down had a beer and he did what he does. Great guy

That is great. I will keep an eye out for the magazine on ebay or amazon.

I agree with the concepts you have been writing about and the ones in the book "the art of keeping snakes".

Life events makes sense and for me.

So does big cages with alot of bio-active substrate. The pictures you posted about snake nests under the glass were the coolest I have seen in a long time.

When did Philippe de Vosjoli die? Had not heard that. I remember those articles in Vivarium; still got them somewhere. Damn, that was a great magazine! So much better than its competitor which still remains. The internet probably killed Vivarium when most of the advertisers left to go on-line.

Yeah, when did he die? I hadn't heard that either.

I agree, the Vivarium was far and away the best herp mag out there. I have most of the issues and still enjoy reading through those old classifieds. I give him credit for giving our hobby some early legitimacy with that first class publication. I was crushed when Reptiles bought them out.

My condolences to his family.

Will

Sorry Guys I was google-ing around the internet looking for the vivaria magazine and found this website...I guess he is alive!

http://www.giantgeckos.net/giantgeckos-cms/index.php

I made a mistake its Bert Langerwarf who passed away. I have a book by him about from a few years ago. It mentions Philippe de Vosjoli and you Mr Frank Retes the long time lizard breeder!

Again, I have no knowledge of his demise. Whats dead and dying is the vision he promoted. At least on recipe driven forums.
While thinking about this, it makes me laugh. I come here and get all manner of grief for promoting some choice for the animals, some freedom to be hognose. A choice of nesting, in reality a concept of nesting. And folks F---ing freak out.

In Phillipe's later days when I knew him.(hes not dead) He had discussions about keeping reptiles in cages without walls, hahahahahahahahahahahahhaha and he did that at his house. And yes, I have too.

So yea, I am just a tiny baby child in that aspect. I mainly defend the minimums and say something when that's breached. If I attempted to suggest anything like "Third wave" heads would pop like in mars attacks.

FR I am not sure what you mean by wave? And I am glad he is alive.

I have kept snakes on and off for a few years I kept them just like the picture on a fish tank of a petsmart box says they should be kept. I like it for a while then I loose interest.

I see pics of the really natural cages in europe that look like fine cabinets with drawers for nest homes and plants native to that snake and think wow! That has got to be better than american keepers its like laboratory style.

DavidM, I think you really just zeroed in on the truth. Interesting and more natural caging is not only better for the snake, but also sustains the interest of the keeper. It is more fun for those us who are fortunate enough to keep these great animals. If we are going to keep them in boxes, they should be interesting boxes, right? (I think the chondro folks have figured this out with their naturalistic caging). We are limited to what we can do with just a box, but one thing we can do is give them better substrate. It is like adding that third dimension to a cage. It greatly increases the available surface area in that box.

I think you are right. It like comparing a gravel fish bowl to a reef tank. Only now the cage is even healthier for the snake/fish.

I know this link does not have deep bio-active substrate but the cages are stunning and I am just impressed with the cages.

http://www.venomland.org/t1208-various-cage-settings-and-
inhabitants

And I get it breeders don't have the money for big nice cages...I am not a breeder.

Hi Dave,

Philippe considered the advancement of herpetoculture in waves. If I remember correctly (and I often don't), the first wave was simply keeping them alive for an extended period of time and maybe getting a few offspring. The second wave was predictably and reliably breeding the animals and the third wave involves keeping them in such a manner that allows them to express their natural behaviors to the best of our ability, in holistic set-ups, much like Frank espouses.

Will

Pretty close, I think what happened was something like what happens here. His third wave was way past what people did and could understand. His third wave was opposite of mass commercial breeding, and of European style. Where different keepers produce different species in limited numbers. In the states, the move was on to fill markets. Which led to the opposite approach, sweater box rack systems. Which supported the keeping of many animals in a factory setting.
This ruined PDV. This separation also supported a minimizing of species, as only a few species such as hogs "put up with" sweater box, factory minimalize caging. PDV was dreaming about reptiles that are expressive, behavioral and active, entertaining species.
The third wave is about these species. The ones now considered difficult. My articles were based on that, At the time, varanids were considered the most difficult of all. My approach, that I learned from kings and other colubrids, revolutionized varanids. So of course, PDV loved me and my approach. To add my approach of accommodating basic species needs added to his third wave approach was indeed great for herp keeping. Unfortunately, private commercialism type setups that needed little knowledge to work, took over. Let me be a arse for a second, commercial setups like the big boys use, is about not about those big breeders you mention. They are designed to be maintained by employees with no herp interest or knowledge. Folks just doing their job. Anyway, PDV, dreamed, I fixed the problems in those dreams. Those were good days.

Hi Frank,

Without question, we've dumbed down herpetoculture to the extreme in the last two decades. In some ways its good because these "easy" methods draw in new people who quickly build the confidence that they can do it.. which is not to keep the herps well, but simply breed them without too much worry or concern and market their babies. However, those species that are behavioral, like hogs, get marginalized and put in tiny tubs 'cause they'll take and still pump out eggs. However, species that aren't genetically programmed to be treated like feed lot cattle quickly leave the scene... and that my friend is sad, because many that are no longer available didn't fit that cookie cutter mentality, but they could have taught us a lot. Thanks buddy.

Will

I hope hes not dead, He did leave the business. Hopefully to pursue other interests.
The magazine died before the internet. Yes, there was a time before the internet when man walked upright.
The problem as I heard/remember/second/third/four hand was distribution, Without naming or even knowing the who. Magazines had owners and deals and distribution deals etc. The Viv had PDV. AT first he could not get into petshops because of those deals, so he backed doored it. The dry goods for pet shops was competitive and controlled. So PDV came in the back door with the fish distributors. If you entered a petshop, you found the other mags in the THF, or whatever it was/is section. If you went to the back, you found the Viv. With the Viv, you had to have experience and follow the second to third wave of herptoculture. With the others, you add to use and promote product.
So its kinda easy to understand me when you think of the Viv magazine. I was interviewed and published in that and the other mag. PDV asked one million questions about husbandry and the animals. The other magazine asked for products they could sell advertising for. It wasn't like that "other" mag was bad people, they had some great folks working for them. But it surely was not headed by real keepers or keepers with a vision.
Lastly I hope hes not dead, what is dead or dying is that vision.

Glad he is very much alive. His editorials in Vivarium were so damn cool. I used to read that magazine from cover to cover. Articles on savu pythons, Bairds ratsnakes, scarlet kings. Lots of species few people work with anymore. It seems like the hobby has been "dumbed down" in the past 10 - 15 years. Vivarium had great articles on terrariums for keeping some of the more obscure and rarely kept herps. Yeah, I remember the Goannaman interviews and and articles about perenties. Good stuff. Vivarium was a good example of "you don't know what you got til its gone".

Hey FR I am sure you don't remember but what 'Volume and No" was you're interview? I guess it is dated info but I like books and mags for nostalgia.