Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know many people here are opposed to venomoids, but I was curious if there are any medical concerns over a bite from a venomoid. Despite what I have heard/read about the risk of infection from non-venomous snake bites, I have been bitten by many non-venomous snakes and aside from the occasional broken tooth and one punctured vessel in my hand, I have never had any complications or incidents of infection. I suppose this question would be just the same asking about dry bites. Are there greater risks of complications from having an inch long fang bury in your flesh as opposed to the smaller teeth of non-venomous snakes (tree boas excluded )?

Yes, the most obvious reason being that an inch long fang is going to leave a nice dose of bacteria well below the surface of your skin. It is much easier to effectively clean the scratches of a nice superficial Nerodia bite. If bitten by a venomoid, I would be sure to seek medical attention right away, for a variety of reasons...

This is a commonly overlooked problem with "Venomoids". Many bites cause serious sepsis requiring opening up the wound and putting a drain in, as well as a course of IV antibiotics. It's not out of the question that if not caught in time it could cost you your limb or life.

Al
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You can take the snake out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the snake.

There is also a chance that either they lied and did not really do the surgery on it (it has happened before) or that they did not removed the entire glad in which case it would be less toxic but still could pack a punch.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

Comparing an adult boa with an adult gabon viper is a lot different. The fangs on a gabon will do a lot more damage and could potentially carry bacteria that once it penetrates so deep in your tissue, it "could" cause a bad reaction. However, a cobra vs a boa or a coral snake vs a ratsnake? what do you really think the answer is? Of course NOT. There is no difference getting bitten by a venomoid coral snake or a non-venomous kingsnake. If anyone tells you that a venomoid's snakes bite carries more bacteria than other snakes, they are full of crap.

np
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

This is indeed a good question. Just because a snake is a "venomoid", doesn't mean it can't be dangerous. You have many risks involved including:
1) botched procedure in which part of the gland/duct is still intact; even minute amounts of venom can be fatal
2) residual venom in shaft of fang; although my guess is that the degradation effect of a non working duct will cause whatever venom that is left in the fang "shaft" to become ineffective, it could still be a potential threat.
3) regeneration: it can and DOES happen.....don't assume that just because it was done "professionally" that regeneration cannot happen; there's documented evidence to prove otherwise.
4) infection: can you imagine the damage that would be done if a large gaboon sunk a fang into your arm (even if it was "harmless"? As Al said, this could leave to MANY problems.

So, aside from the philosophical/moral problems of venomoids (I will stay out of that one!), there are real threats to owners keeping venomoids who think they have a nice little lap "dog" that they can show off to their buddies.

>>I know many people here are opposed to venomoids, but I was curious if there are any medical concerns over a bite from a venomoid. Despite what I have heard/read about the risk of infection from non-venomous snake bites, I have been bitten by many non-venomous snakes and aside from the occasional broken tooth and one punctured vessel in my hand, I have never had any complications or incidents of infection. I suppose this question would be just the same asking about dry bites. Are there greater risks of complications from having an inch long fang bury in your flesh as opposed to the smaller teeth of non-venomous snakes (tree boas excluded )?
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

1. There was someone on this forum a few years ago(on the old system) who did some work with venomoid cobras and noticed that when they bit a rodent(mouse or rat) they were paralyzed after a few minutes and dead within a half hour. Apparently after venom gland removal the saliva was still toxic-not a full "charge" but enough to cause sickness in humans, possibly worse. I don't know if it would be possible to find these posts or not since they were on the old system.
2. The one I never thought of-I think it was on the venomoid subforum(post a month or 2 old, read it last night). In an intact venomous snake the venom from a bite "flushes" the fang channel whenever the snake bites. When this stops bacteria xcan build up in the channel, then get into the wound when it bites.
I don't know how true the "toxic saliva" claim is, but it would be interesting to see what BGF had to say about it, and the "bacterial injection" makes enough sense to be possibl, whio knows?

I don't know if there would be any difference between the Elapids producing toxic saliva vs. Crotalids, but I'll share my experience.

As cautious as I am to mention this, I do have a venomoid WDB that I use for educational purposes. This is primarily for liability purposes. I treat it no different than any of my other hots because I want to send the right message to the audience and myself, and I still wouldn't want to experience a bite from him. Every month or two, I will put a live mouse or young rat in the cage with him, let him bite it, and then remove and observe. I do this as an extra safety precaution because of all the stories I've heard about regeneration. These mice/rats have all lived and aside from occasional licking of their wound or limping from a hind quarter bite, there have been no signs of any sort of envenomation or long term bacterial infections. I think this goes to show that, at least in this one individual, that there is no toxic saliva present.

I don't know if rodents would have more resistance to a deep innoculation of bacteria from a fang, but I would guess that there is not alot along the lines of bacterial worries. I figure any problems would have alot to do with where they get you, how they get you, and when they last brushed their teeth. I've always considered snake mouths rather clean considering that they don't chew food or lick their own butts.

Has anyone here actually received a dry bite or bite from a venomoid (if your willing to admit it)? If so, what was done to treat it and what was the outcome?

Got a response from BGF about this, he said it's most likely a case of part of the gland or duct being left, not a true saliva toxin. Sort of falls back on the potential "regeneration" issue.

I have been bitten many times by several different venomoids, including a forest cobra and a neo-tropical rattler. The forest cobra bites were a non issue, as the fangs are small and there was not much pain or swelling. The neo-tropical bite was quite painful but still no infection, even though the puntures were deep. I keep a dozen or so venomoids, and about as many hots. I have been keeping them for the last 17 years. I obviously don't handle my venomoids as carefully or would not have the bites to comment on. A good place to ask questions about venomoids and be treated with respect is venomoid@yahoogroups.com ......Robin

This comes up rather regularly.
Here is a link to an applicable thread that actually references cases and describes the particular bacteria that was cultured out from the snakes involved.
Karl H. Betz
Thread about venomoid infections

Thank you for that last post, it was quite interesting.