>>My data indicates otherwise.

I would be interested to see data if you have it in a documented format.

>>If you keep them in a dry cage and offer water by spraying >>and water bowl they will lose weight beyond the weight of >>their feces.

This is contrary to my experience. There are many other reasons why a HL may lose weight, thus if you have "data" from studying different groups of HL's subjected to different hydration protocol and habitat, it would be important to go into more detail ( as well as what species you are talking about ). My solare and cornutum have always been kept in low humidity/arid conditions ( same as their natural desert or semi-desert habitats ), and given water by misting, dropper, or very occasional soak. No humidity retaining substrates. They do not lose weight except during hibernation, as expected. They have healthy fat reserves. A solare I recently received underweight is putting on 1-2gm a week on Pogo's and hydration every few days by the methods above. She is weighed every morning after bowel movement and before feeding. At her current rate she will be safe to hibernate for a short period before the end of winter.

>>This is why everyone now provides moist underground sleeping >>quarters in the form of damp sand or the like.

Who is "everyone"?

>>Phrynosomas are far worse at holding water than all other >>southwest desert species.

All other species? Or of all other species of reptile? That's a very sweeping statement and I doubt that you or anyone else for that matter has conducted such study on every species of reptile in the southwest desert. But I'm open to seeing the data on what you have. A gopher tortoise could be better for example, but that's a very relative observation. I will maintain that the HL as a diurnal desert dwelling species is "efficient" with it's water retention nonetheless until shown scientific data to prove otherwise. It may be less efficient than some other reptiles, but that wasn't my point.

>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formic_acid
>>Formic Acid is HCO2H. Take a look at the form of the molecule >>at wikipedia.

Thank you, but you will have to forgive me if I do not consider "wikipedia" the best source for your information. Not that it's wrong, but I have studied it elsewhere from more scientifically credible sources.

>>A) there is no "salt" present in the chemistry to >>make "salt". No sodium or chlorides, no salt.

Sodium and Chlorine are not the only cations and anions that can make a salt compound. You are accounting only for the structure of formic acid, and not what it reacts with during metabolization.

www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/carboxylicacid.html
"When a carboxylic acid is neutralized with a base it becomes a salt that is itself a weak base."

www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v38aje03.htm
"Biochemical aspects"

"Formate is an intermediate in normal metabolism. It takes part in the metabolism of one-carbon compounds and its carbon may appear in methyl groups undergoing transmethylation. It is eventually oxidized to carbon dioxide.1"

www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/CP/article.asp?
doi=B510112C
"Heterogeneous uptake and reactivity of formic acid on calcium carbonate particles:"
"...enhanced uptake kinetics and extent of reaction of this organic acid on CaCO3 as well as opens up several new reaction pathways. These reaction pathways include: (i) the water-assisted dissociation of carbonic acid to CO2 and H2O..."

>>B) it does metabolize into H20 and CH the CH binds with other >>foodstuffs in ways I cannot explain.

Rather than "hydrocarbon", I think you should mean "carbohydrate".

>>A real chemist could explain why it does not break down into >>Co2 and H2. I believe it has to do with the pH.

It does break down into CO2 according to my sources, but that's why I asked particularly for someone with a biology background, like Lester to respond to that. Besides, all this is far removed from the subject matter of my post...which was about the calcium factor in the blood acting on formic acid. If you wish to debate further what formic acid does or does not yield and why, or the benefits of humidity in the substrate please take it up in another thread where appropriate.


>>Thanks for your post.

Thanks for yours.
-----
"A man that should call everything by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy." The Complete Works of George Savile, First Marquess of Halifax 1912,246

[ Reply To This Message ] [ Subscribe to this Thread ] [ Show Entire Thread ]