>>>>If you keep them in a dry cage and offer water by spraying >>and water bowl they will lose weight beyond the weight of >>their feces.
>>
>>This is contrary to my experience. There are many other reasons why a HL may lose weight,

Such as?? My 25 years of lizard keeping experience tells me that a healthy, feeding animal loses weight ONLY from dehydration.

My solare and cornutum have always been kept in low humidity/arid conditions ( same as their natural desert or semi-desert habitats ), and given water by misting, dropper, or very occasional soak. No humidity retaining substrates.

Likely you get away with this because they have learned to drink water and eat plenty of food. Not because they are drought tolerant. Same data, different conclusion.

>> They do not lose weight except during hibernation, as expected.

This is a sign they are dehydrating and is certainly NOT expected amongst animals I have raised. They lose NO weight at any time except during dehydration events and is always reversed when the substrate is moistened.

I challenge you to take a shovel into the field next hunting trip. When you find a HL dig a 12" hole and see how moist it is where your new found animal slept last night. From what you say it is likely you will be surprised. You will not deny that in nature the species of HL you are working with sleep underground in nature, do you? Once you have dug my test hole perhaps you'll offer moist sand to your captives.

This knowledge is utilized for other subterranean lizards such as Coleonyx and Eublepharis. If they sleep in the same places, why not Phrynosomas??


>> They have healthy fat reserves. A solare I recently received underweight is putting on 1-2gm a week on Pogo's and hydration every few days by the methods above.

So you agree hydration is important and ants are a significant source of water. Great!

>> She is weighed every morning after bowel movement and before feeding. At her current rate she will be safe to hibernate for a short period before the end of winter.

Terrific. Good on you for taking such good care of her.

>>
>>>>This is why everyone now provides moist underground sleeping >>quarters in the form of damp sand or the like.
>>
>>Who is "everyone"?

Everyone I talk to and have read posts of. AND those I advise in my store. Beginners raise babies to adults in 18 months using my moist substrate protocol.

>>>>Phrynosomas are far worse at holding water than all other >>southwest desert species.
>>
>>All other species? Or of all other species of reptile?

Sorry. I was not clear. All other diurnal desert lizards. I have kept all of California's diurnal desert genera and almost all species (except P mcalli and G silus) and once you have a few dozen of each it becomes clear who needs the most water.

>>That's a very sweeping statement and I doubt that you or anyone else for that matter has conducted such study on every species of reptile in the southwest desert.

See above. My studies were husbandry based. I did utilize laboratory equipment as I worked as a chem lab tech at the time. Thus I had excellent weight data.

>>But I'm open to seeing the data on what you have.

Unfortunately, it was lost in a fire. Unfortunate girlfriend incident. She was a wacko! My bad on that.

>>A gopher tortoise could be better for example, but that's a very relative observation. I will maintain that the HL as a diurnal desert dwelling species is "efficient" with it's water retention nonetheless until shown scientific data to prove otherwise.

OK, no sweat! But science only gleans "basic" data when it comes to husbandry. So far, keeping animals alive is not important to "scientists" so we must use what they teach us, combine it with what the animals teach us and make our own hypothesis. Just as you have done and I have done. From what I see here, I suspect we have similar data and are interpreting it differently. That is the source of further discussion and experimentation. I am happy to have read yours and hope you are of mine.

Desert Tortoises are very good at holding water (they sleep in humid chambers), but dehydrate easily in dry enclosures. They dig a moist burrow for access to the humidity, especially babies. If you'd like to discuss tortoises and humidity I can do that at great length privately.

>> It may be less efficient than some other reptiles, but that wasn't my point.

It was my point that you challenged me on.

Thanks!
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