GM - "It is clear that they are not emotional animals. When they get injured, there is no emotional responce like you see in mammals."



WS - Sure there is! Observe what they do, notice their hyper-sensitive responses to stimuli. Check their heartrates. just because they are not outwardly weeping doesn't mean that they don't have a response.



GM - "A lot of behaviors you see in captivity are nothing like what you would see in the wild."



WS - Of course they are, they are exactly as you would see in the wild; given a similar set of supporting environmental contitions or stimuli.



GM- "We are keeping these lizards in boxes. We are forcing them into situation they would normally not partake in in a wild situation. Someone had mentioned that you can not change a reptiles behavior by keeping them in captivity. This is mostly true. What happens though is that behaviors are often misread. Like when you see a few animals in the same area of the cage. Is it because they want to hang with their buddies or is it because they are going for the same optimal part of the cage?"



WS- Well, if the keeper offers limited choices in the enclosue, then yeah, animals will congregate to the optimum sites, regardless of preference. That is obvious. However, cohersing behavior with minimal options is not what we are talking about. When the same choices (security, temps, humidity) are offered in other portions of the cage and the animals choose to repeatedly rest together in physical contact, when it is not required to maintain physical conditions, it means that they are doing it for a reason. A reason that still occurs even though it many not be understood by the observer.



GM - "When you find numerous snakes under the same board in the wild it is because it is the only board in that particular area. It is not because they want eachothers company or because they are social."



WS - Not even close. I have observed many common snakes: E. garters, N. browns, N. redbellies, E. ringnecks, E. milks and N. waters, year after year, and continue to observe certain individuals together for extended periods of time outside the breeding season in areas rich in suitable habitat and cover(where they don't "need" to be together). I have seen similar behaviors from spotted turtles in NY and green anoles, when I lived in Fla.



GM - "In the early spring and late fall I find dozens and dozens of timber rattlesnakes in the same area. During the summer, they are only found by themselves. Just like captivity, certain things force these animals together in the wild. It has nothing to do with being social."



WS - I disagree. They may seperate for periods of foraging or gestation, but if you had access to their "gathering sites" which are likely underground, you would find them together for extended periods of time.





Gregg, I'm not discounting your observations, I'm merely stating that their might be more going on than your seeing. Thanks.



Will

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