Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
Click here to visit Classifieds

Are my Veileds Sick?

bigmansm Aug 19, 2009 10:56 PM

I am attaching a picture of the two veileds I purchased two weeks ago. These are from the same clutch. Suppose to be a male and female, but kind of unsure still. When I purchased them, the larger cham in the photo was the largest of the group, the others were all the same size as the smaller one in the pic.

But, here is my concern, he has grown quite a bit since I have owned them, the smaller cham has shown no signs of growth.

Both eat and drink and both are very active. They are also being kept in the same cage which is 12in wide x 12in long by 18in high. More than enough room IMO.

From what I heard, the small one either has worms or a protozone that is not letting it grown. Both can pretty easier be treated by dusting their food with some special stuff.

What do you think I should do? Should I be worried? Should I seperate them, I prefer not too?
Image" alt="Image">
-----
Getting ready for my new Chameleon.

Replies (6)

bigmansm Aug 19, 2009 10:58 PM

Sorry, here is the picture. click to enlarge

-----
Getting ready for my new Chameleon.

xanthoman Aug 20, 2009 03:26 AM

nowheres near enough info for anyone to determine anything, cage size is not just an issue of enough room to move around, its an issue of territory, most chams are solitary animals, and housing them together should only be attempted by experienced keepers, with large cages. you should never house two chams together where there is a substantial size difference, for a # of reasons ,remember with chams by the time a problem becomes noticeable it is often too late,if you dont give a cham the space it needs it will just sit there and look fine , while secretly stressing until it gets sick, if you put a larger cham in with a smaller one (especialy if they are a different sex)the larger one will just dominate the smaller one, intimidating them and causing stress, also intimidating them over food and water,once a difference in size begins to occur this usually gets worse until the smaller on gets sick and dies.chams may sit ther for months and not really physically fight but sooner or later it is almost certain thay will and the injuries are often fatal. after the first three months, males and females should only be put together for mating purposes, females can sometimes be housed together if they are approx the same size and in a large cage. your cage is just right for your smaller cham, the larger cham is ready for at least a 16x16 x36"cage but will grow quickly so you might as well step up to the full size large cage 2x2x4' there is a long and complex list of parasites that affect chams and treatment is seldom a case of just medicated dusting and often results in the death of the cham, and if your smaller cham has parasite issue keeping it with another cham will most likely spead them regardless of size or sex. if you have parasite concerns you should seek a qualified herp vet and request a fecal float for both animals, always a good idea for new chams anyway, there are no simple treatments for any cham parasite issues,if you look at this or any other cham forum you will see a large number of posts where the essence is "help my cham is sick or dying and i dont know what to do" that should tell you something right there. these are people that usually failed to learn or ignored mainstream advice. even experienced cham keepers have problems. the best cham keeping tool is knowledge of the particular cham you are trying to keep, keeping chams is not like keeping snakes or bearded dragons if you fail to give them the enviroment they require , one day they will just appear sick and it will in all probability be too late to do anything about. your cage is too small for the bigger cham let alone both of them, if you do have parasites you will not get rid of them by simply dusting , as a cham keeper it is your responsibilty to learn all you can about the animals you are trying to keep (the chams certainly cant do it) to do your own research from a multitude of sources, and not just rely on what the pet store or a single person has told you,the best way to tell if a cham is sick is by examination of the feces, it should have three components , fist a firm dark brown thats the pooh , second a firm white (not yellow) portion(the urates), and to a lesser degree some clear liquid that usually goes unnoticed. if your chams eyes are sunken or any part of your cams pooh has a strong or objectionable odor , or any part of the pooh is gelatinous or yellow then your cham has issues. sexing veileds is easy at almost any age , the males have a small tuft of skin behind their rear feet that looks like a false toe, it is called a tarsal spur. if you are unsure of the health of your current chams why would you proceed in getting another one? wouldnt it be more rewarding to have two healthy thriving ones, than three sick ones ? i would strongly recomend reading http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

Carlton Aug 20, 2009 11:47 AM

I agree. Separate them as soon as possible. As they are still small you can get a larger cage and divide it in two sections with a barrier that blocks their view. You can rig lights across the top at the center of the divided cage so they can share them without seeing each other. Then get the second cage set up for one of them later. Stress is subtle and a killer for chams.

bigmansm Aug 21, 2009 08:54 AM

I think that it would be a huge mistake to put the larger of the two chameleons in my 36in cage. He would have trouble finding food and water.

I agree that seperating them should probably be the first thing to do. I have also stopped removing them from their indoor cage and dropping them in their outdoor cage to feed.

They would become very active when in the outdoor cage which I thought was good, but I think it was stressful for them. Once I put them back in their indoor cage they would walk all over the place including upside down the top of the cage.
-----
Getting ready for my new Chameleon.

Carlton Aug 21, 2009 12:36 PM

Oh you can limit the area in your larger cage with a divider and remove it as he grows. Pretty simple to do and separating them should be a priority.

kinyonga Aug 21, 2009 02:53 PM

You said...one "has grown quite a bit since I have owned them, the smaller cham has shown no signs of growth"..look at the heels of both to see if there is a tarsal spur. If the larger one has spurs and the little one doesn't that could be at least part of the reason the larger one is growing faster. Also...does the larger one get to bask more than the smaller one?

You said..."They are also being kept in the same cage which is 12in wide x 12in long by 18in high. More than enough room IMO."...I have to agree with them being separated since one is growing faster than the other....especially if one has parasites. I prefer longer lower cages when they are young so they can be within range of the UVB light more easily and it seems to be easier to find the food.

You said..."From what I heard, the small one either has worms or a protozone that is not letting it grown"...if you don't get a fecal done you won't know for sure if it has a parasite and you won't know what parasite it is so you won't know what to treat it with.

What brand and type (spiral, compact, long linear tube, etc.) of UVB light are you using? Basking light? Basking temperature?
What (specific)supplements are you using and how often for each?
What do you gutload/feed to the insects (specifically)?
If you have female(s), its important to provide a place for them to dig to show you that they need to lay eggs once they are about 4 or 5 months old. Veileds can produce eggs without having been mated...and they can die eggbound if they have no where to lay them.

Here are some good sites you might like to read...
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://chameleonnews.com/
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://adcham.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502074401/www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20060421082042/www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html

Site Tools