Larry,

"To be clear, that kind of damage is unlikely, and probably less likely than with many other vipers. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the possibility."

Thank You. As stated in other message(s), I let fear guide me, and with such a vivid mind, it helps me not take the chances, heh! With my immunity and strength, there's probably even less of a chance of losing fingers or feeling in an arm, but it'd be folly to let that get to my head and test Fate.

"I'm not personally familiar with Atropoides, but a quick Wikipedia search suggests they are known for holding on and biting multiple times."

Funny enough, as soon as the Jumping Viper was suggested to me on here by Chris, I as well searched it on Google and went to the Wikipedia page which I still have up. Adding to the fact of their multiple bites and tenacious nature, I quote the Wikipedia page:

"However, the effects of the venom include only transient pain and mild swelling. In one part of Honduras the locals even insist that the snake (A. nummifer) is not venomous. Laboratory studies suggest that Atropoides venoms are unlikely to lead to consumption coagulopathy and incoagulable blood in humans. However, other research revealed that of ten different Costa Rican pit viper venoms tested on mice, that of A. picadoi was the most hemorrhagic."

Obviously, like with any other hot, You don't take Your chances! But it's good to know this genus seems even less cable of inflicting death or serious damage.

"Also, if you were to get a bad bite from one, unless you live in South Florida or a few other spots in the U.S. antivenom is unlikely to be availible locally."

I have also taken this into consideration since it was first addressed to me on here (if by You, sorry for not crediting...I don't remember from whom). It's common sense, and hey, if I could keep my native Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen and eventually Crotalus horridus, I would go with those first. Ah well...

Unfortunately, I think keeping Tropidolaemus wagleri raises the same issue as keeping the genus Atropoides or any other exotic hot, which is why I mentioned in previous message(s) of pursuing antivenin practices, especially to make antivenin for the species I will keep myself.

"This is probably the wrong way to look at things. Gaboon vipers probably fit that description, but they strike so fast you can't see them move and some will occasionally go ape-&*# and make you chase them around the room...

Haha, sounds like it would be a nerve-racking blast for a first time on a novice! Gaboon Viper - longest fangs in the world, too, at ~2". I remember learning that in my early years of the hobby.

Those pictures are something else (!), but doesn't the Death Adder hold the record for the fastest snake striker at 1/250th of a second, including recoil?

"I've only personally worked with one wagleri, but like all the arboreal vipers I've worked with they were generally easy to control. They require a little dexterity with hooks (you WILL need two) to get them loose from a branch, but as long as you're not in a hurry you'll get it done."

Good to know of their ease. I was planning on getting two hooks anyhow, perhaps one kept at the opposite side of room from where (most of) the snakes will be staged, or for bigger hots...aren't two recommended for snakes of significant size? Luckily for me, I am very laid back and patient (a virtue!), and I would never rush dealing with a hot.

"One thing to be careful of with arboreal vipers is that many will occasionally strike out, just holding the branch with their tails. There are two problems with this:

1) It gives them unexpected range.
2) Every now and then, one will lose it's grip and come flying out in a ballistic arc towards your waist/legs/feet... That will wake you up in the morning."

Yes, I have thought of this from keeping a 5'4" Corallus cookii that would "lunge out", and of course, arboreals are closer to head-level, ha! Lunging at the waist...as long as it's not my morning alarm!

Timothy

>>>>I'd like to keep my fingers and full feeling of my arms.
>>
>>To be clear, that kind of damage is unlikely, and probably less likely than with many other vipers. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the possibility.
>>
>>>>With Atropoides spp. having a lower metabolism, do You think there's a lesser chance of losing control over them?
>>
>>I'm not personally familiar with Atropoides, but a quick Wikipedia search suggests they are known for holding on and biting multiple times.
>>
>>Also, if you were to get a bad bite from one, unless you live in South Florida or a few other spots in the U.S. antivenom is unlikely to be availible locally.
>>
>>>> I presume You might also suggest an Agkistrodon sp. because of a possibly lower metabolism as well?
>>
>>This is probably the wrong way to look at things. Gaboon vipers probably fit that description, but they strike so fast you can't see them move and some will occasionally go ape-&*# and make you chase them around the room...
>>
>>madprogrammer.com/snakes/gaboonstrike/
>>
>>>> What are Your thoughts on Tropidolaemus wagleri in regards to control?
>>
>>I've only personally worked with one wagleri, but like all the arboreal vipers I've worked with they were generally easy to control. They require a little dexterity with hooks (you WILL need two) to get them loose from a branch, but as long as you're not in a hurry you'll get it done.
>>
>>One thing to be careful of with arboreal vipers is that many will occasionally strike out, just holding the branch with their tails. There are two problems with this:
>>1) It gives them unexpected range.
>>2) Every now and then, one will lose it's grip and come flying out in a ballistic arc towards your waist/legs/feet... That will wake you up in the morning.
>>
>>
>>-----
>>What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.


-----
T.J. Gould

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