This is what I believe is the root of the constant question about albigs, and other species.

Its not particularly concerning science for science, but more about science for the people. Its not even a discussion about how science with reptiles, is a world to its own. When science is suppose to be knowledge for the people. Which is us, by the way.

Its much simplier then that. If we take albigs, they are a very good example, but its surely not restricted to them.

So lets take albigs. I and others(I hope) are not arguing that the system of scientific nomenclature(sp) is, good, bad, or otherwise. Or even if its useful. Of course its useful. But it also fails us.

With albigs, we know there are, V.a.albigularis and V.a.mirostictus and what was known as Ionidies, V.a.ionidies That is still all fine and dandy. The problem is, there are more availible to us. There are Cape monitors, Banded Cape monitors, Tanizinan whitethroats, Ionidies blackthroats, and blackthroats. Then there was the whitethroats that San Diego zoo has, which are different then the previously mentioned whitethroats. Then there was the Olga Zoo Whitethroats, which were amazing and distintly different then the previously mentioned whitethroats. There has been other types as well. So what we have are lots of types and two names. Honey why is that?

Heres the thing, those of us who work with these different animals, know from keeping them, that they are indeed different. While we do understand, they are still albigs and not Savs or niles or even lacies. They still are different from eachother.

They are different is many major ways, such as size and reproductive ability. I never heard of a Whitethroat of any kind lay over 50 eggs. Yet, both, mirostictus types have. There are structural differences, skin texture and scalation, tail structure and of course the obvious color and pattern difference.

Again I do not think anyone is saying these are different species, they are something less different. But what is less different then species? it use to be subspecies, but that has somehow, disappeared. Or even with plants, they can be called regional varities or races. But that is not used with reptiles.

That is the problem. There is no discription of local types.

Now for Sam to understand, In our world as hobbyist, we have your names and more. Much much more, even more then the above. We not only have, local specific,(which many specialize in) but we have color morphs(many specialize in) color mutations(etc). All of which are natural occuring. Plus we have morphs that are created in captivity and even crosses and combinations of crosses. Again, many people specialize in these too. Now Sam, I am sure this is starting to make you itch and scratch. But, this is our world, the world of this forum.

I know you want to say, but that is not about science(putting words in your mouth) Well, your right, its about the people, we the people. We are the people and its about us, we are the hobbyist, breeders, collectors, etc. There are thousands of people envolved in this type of industry. They are happily doing what they do, they have done wonderful things. At least they think they have done wonderful things, heck they enjoy them, and heck, some have made a living at what they like. And all staying within the rules of society. So this is our world, whether or not, your science agrees or if its about your science at all. The real honest truth is, it took real science to achieve what has been achieved. But of course, Sam, you may not agree. Thanks FR

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